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Old 01-16-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,356,272 times
Reputation: 36094

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Have you considered the possibility that states whose economies have been killed off by big business are the ones that became liberal? Try to get your cause and effect in the right order.
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,078 posts, read 5,458,303 times
Reputation: 4337
Quote:
Businesses are simply more willing to pay really high taxes/costs (if they can afford it, of course) if it means that they have a presence in New York, as opposed to Charlotte. Rental rates only got that way because of demand.

Location trumps taxes.
OK, I think I've got it nailed down now. Basically... Liberal, high-spending, high-taxing governments ruin economies, as a general rule. The exceptions occur when a city/state is in such a desirable location that businesses are willing to fork over a bunch of money just to be there.

I'm satisfied with how this discussion went - no more replies necessary
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:39 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,817,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I have not looked into this all that deeply... but is there any sort of relationship between states that have constistently voted Democratic and poor state economies?

States like New York, California and Michigan have become very "blue." They are also dying economically. Texas, on the other hand, is more of a "red" state and has a stronger state economy.

I also realize that the entire nation is now in a slump, but, relatively speaking, am I onto something here? Or do states turn "blue" as a result of a dying economy? If your state is dying, is it in your personal interest to vote in a way that will provide you with a bigger government safety net?

If voting Democratic is partially to blame for driving business out of your state, I have to question why people would continue to do it. Michigan is a prime example of this.
Michigan was the only state that was "dying" even before the recession. California is quite vibrant. The population is going up, and the only reason the rate of growth isn't like, say, Nevada, is that it's already crowded. Yet it remains a popular state, especially for immigrants.
I live in Alabama, a red state. California is far more vibrant than Alabama.

And if you want to talk about the red states that were growing so quickly before the recession, note that those states are hurting the most. And many of the areas in California that are currently hurting the most are the more conservative areas... because those are the more rural areas that had fast development.
Red vs Blue is too simplistic.
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:39 PM
 
Location: PLANET EARTH
4 posts, read 4,104 times
Reputation: 10
Default The she wolf replies:

WELL ONE THING IS FOR SURE: A LITTLE GETTING ALONG WITH EACH OTHER IS DEFINITELY IN THE NEED RIGHTNOW TOO WELL TO NOT TO AKE NOTE UNTO!!!! SIGNED: THE SHE WOLF. (SHE WOLF SMITH).
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:07 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,785,778 times
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Here's an interesting yearly statistic: The United Van Lines annual migration survey that tracks which states are seeing the most immigration and which states are seeing the most emigration:

United Van Lines | Moving and Storage Services | America's Largest Moving Company

DC, Nevada, North Carolina, Alabama, Wyoming, South Dakota, South Carolina, and Oregon topped the list of states with more people moving into the states.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 13,117,069 times
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I thought most big businesses don't care about taxes.
A lot of times they can hire a few accountants to try to get them out of a lot of corporate taxes.
Sometimes all the companies care about is what kind of incentives they'll get from the state for coming there.

Columnists: State's incentives law not applied equally | companies, tax, incentives - www.thetimesnews.com (http://www.thetimesnews.com/onset?id=6791&template=article.html - broken link)
http://www.ncpa.org/~ncpa/pi/taxes/taxbook/taxbook2.html (http://www.ncpa.org/%7Encpa/pi/taxes/taxbook/taxbook2.html - broken link)

How to Play the Incentives Game | Area Development Online
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,356,272 times
Reputation: 36094
Click the link below the map. You will see that the number of shipments into Michian was abut 7 times the number of shipments into South Dakoita. Yet. Michigan is listed as high on the outbound, and SD high on the inbound. Also, if SD is high on inbounds, and ND is high on outbounds, isnt it it possible that 500 people moved from ND to SD, which doesn't reflect anything at all that is worth knowing, except to trivia buffs.

Sorry to disappoint you, folks, but people are not flocking from New York to South Dakota, in spite of the fancy manipulation of the language in the text of the report.

Furthermore, United Van lines is not uniformly spotted around the country. There are going to be more outbounds from places where they are aggressive and dominant in the van market, and fewer outbounds in places where they are not even in the Yellow Pages. For example, United is not listed in the Yellow Pages here in Victoria TX, but Allied and Mayflower are. So guess what? United does not know about anybody moving out of Victoria TX, but they might know about people moving in. Voila! More inbounds.

Last edited by jtur88; 01-16-2009 at 02:48 PM..
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:33 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,141 posts, read 9,925,452 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawny08 View Post
Northern states have several things going against them other than their governments.

Most important is that they tend to be wealthier and send far more of their money to the south in federal tax money. Just look at the federal spending per dollar paid by state (GA, TX, FL are the only southern states that pay their way). If you pay more that you get back you have to raise local taxes to make up for it.

Second, the weather plays a factor. Retirees help boost the economy of southern states big time.

Third, the Northeast is densely populated which drives up the cost of living/housing.


Having said that many voters in the NE tend to not think about their state's being competitive when they elect their officials. I feel in NY we have republicans that have ruined things on the national level and Dems that have ruined the state.
Well said.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,035 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33083
Colorado, listed here as blue, has been "blue" for exactly two months. It went for Bush in 2004.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,035 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukester View Post
That's their first mistake voting for Bush...
Well, yeah, but this thread is about "liberal" states and dying economies. Colorado is far from liberal, even though we have more registered Independents than either Democrats or Republicans, and we have a mix of local politicians.
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