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Old 01-16-2009, 07:50 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,078 posts, read 5,457,327 times
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I have not looked into this all that deeply... but is there any sort of relationship between states that have constistently voted Democratic and poor state economies?

States like New York, California and Michigan have become very "blue." They are also dying economically. Texas, on the other hand, is more of a "red" state and has a stronger state economy.

I also realize that the entire nation is now in a slump, but, relatively speaking, am I onto something here? Or do states turn "blue" as a result of a dying economy? If your state is dying, is it in your personal interest to vote in a way that will provide you with a bigger government safety net?

If voting Democratic is partially to blame for driving business out of your state, I have to question why people would continue to do it. Michigan is a prime example of this.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,708 posts, read 33,729,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I have not looked into this all that deeply... but is there any sort of relationship between states that have constistently voted Democratic and poor state economies?

States like New York, California and Michigan have become very "blue." They are also dying economically. Texas, on the other hand, is more of a "red" state and has a stronger state economy.

I also realize that the entire nation is now in a slump, but, relatively speaking, am I onto something here? Or do states turn "blue" as a result of a dying economy? If your state is dying, is it in your personal interest to vote in a way that will provide you with a bigger government safety net?

If voting Democratic is partially to blame for driving business out of your state, I have to question why people would continue to do it. Michigan is a prime example of this.
The sad thing is they are migrating out of those heavily liberal over-taxed states because they don't make the liberal/over-taxed/regulated connection so they are moving to conservative states and changing the political landscape. Pretty soon we'll all be in the crapper, economically speaking.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:14 AM
 
11,179 posts, read 22,400,541 times
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New York, Illinois, Mass., California, Washington, Oregan, DC.....they're all quite democratic and their economies have done quiet well the past 15 years.

I think it's more of a fluke than anything solid. The southern states have always been very republican as republicans are defined today. They're growing strongly because they were always quite a bit behind the northern states in population, and with the advent of AC, they are finally catching up to where you'd expect them to be as far as the number of people living there (it's warm).

With the increase in population the economies are obviously growing strong. I assume they'll keep growing, but obviously you're not going to be seeing 20% growth for decades on end. I would hope they'd slow down a little in the next 20 years to allow their infrastructure to finally catch up a bit with the number of people.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,465 posts, read 7,535,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I have not looked into this all that deeply... but is there any sort of relationship between states that have constistently voted Democratic and poor state economies?
The short answer: No.

First off, the red/blue distinction perpetuated by the media is oversimplified. There are liberal areas and conservative areas within many states. Also, while there may be an overall economic climate to a state, it oversimplifies the discussion to claim that there may not be areas in which a state is doing both poorly and well economically -- New York definitely fits that description (upstate vs. downstate, for example).

If anything, you need to look at individual metro areas to determine this effect, since there is little uniformity in terms of economic activity in many states. However, if anything, there is evidence to suggest that more urban, prosperous areas (i.e., large metro areas) shifted strongly Democratic, while more rural, less prosperous areas shifted Republican in this past election. The Republicans pretty much lost their stranglehold on affluent, suburban voters.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:35 AM
 
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Well, Michigan is a pretty good example of a state that swung so far to the Democratic side and also has had a complete economic meltdown. Granholm and your state legislature is pretty much a textbook example of how NOT to promote a healthy economy. The fact that they actually raised corporate taxes a couple of years ago even as jobs were hemorrhaging out of the state speaks a lot to that. Because you hail from Michigan, that probably has a great deal to do with your opinion.

On the other end, states such as Washington, Minnesota, New York, and Massachusetts have fared well economically. California, however, is extremely dicey due to its generous treatment of illegal immigrants and high taxation levels. I have three neighbors who moved to the South from California because their corporate and personal taxes had become too high.

I think when the economy tanks, however, the much larger safety nets in the Blue states may prove to be a huge drag on those states' respective economies, and may further accelerate business relocation to more business-friendly climes.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Houston Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
New York, Illinois, Mass., California, Washington, Oregan, DC.....they're all quite democratic and their economies have done quiet well the past 15 years.

I think it's more of a fluke than anything solid. The southern states have always been very republican as republicans are defined today. They're growing strongly because they were always quite a bit behind the northern states in population, and with the advent of AC, they are finally catching up to where you'd expect them to be as far as the number of people living there (it's warm).

With the increase in population the economies are obviously growing strong. I assume they'll keep growing, but obviously you're not going to be seeing 20% growth for decades on end. I would hope they'd slow down a little in the next 20 years to allow their infrastructure to finally catch up a bit with the number of people.

Texas is far behind Northern states in population???
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,185 posts, read 4,204,300 times
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As noted, not all "liberal" states have dying or declining economies. However, some states (such as New York and New Jersey) have declining industrial sectors (manufacturing, etc.), and others (such as Michigan) are in much greater state-wide trouble.

One common factor here is the decades-long presence of labor unions; some people have argued that the demands of labor unions have helped shift manufacturing to the sunbelt and overseas.

Though the states themselves may be perceived as "liberal," the people in labor unions tend to be social conservatives or moderates. A "liberal" Michigan is very different from a "liberal" California.

It should be noted that some struggling or less fortunate states have a strong (mostly recent)Republican tradition: West Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: The Rock!
2,370 posts, read 7,000,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quijote View Post
As noted, not all "liberal" states have dying or declining economies. However, some states (such as New York and New Jersey) have declining industrial sectors (manufacturing, etc.), and others (such as Michigan) are in much greater state-wide trouble.

One common factor here is the decades-long presence of labor unions; some people have argued that the demands of labor unions have helped shift manufacturing to the sunbelt and overseas.

Though the states themselves may be perceived as "liberal," the people in labor unions tend to be social conservatives or moderates. A "liberal" Michigan is very different from a "liberal" California.

It should be noted that some struggling or less fortunate states have a strong (mostly recent)Republican tradition: West Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas.
Arkansas isn't quite struggling right now. Our cities have some of the lowest unemployment in the country and have for almost a decade. The state as a whole has higher than national average unemployment but most of the MSA's are quite a bit below. Little Rock has had $1.1B in investment made or promised and in process over the past 5 years. We're not immune to the economic meltdown the rest of the country is seeing but our cities are no where near struggling at this time. *fingers crossed it holds out*
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
1,196 posts, read 4,343,469 times
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Here is the top 25 states as far as GDP by capita, and whether they are red or blue state:

1. Delaware(blue)
2. Connecticut(blue)
3. Massachusetts(blue)
4. New York(blue)
5. New Jersey(blue)
6. Alaska(red)
7. Colorado(blue)
8. Virginia(blue)
9. California(blue)
10. Minnesota(blue)
11. Nevada(blue)
12. Washington(blue)
13. Illinois(blue)
14. Maryland(blue)
15. Wyoming(red)
16. Hawaii(blue)
17. New Hampshire(blue)
18. Oregon(blue)
19. Texas(red)
20. North Carolina(blue)
21. Nebraska(red)
22. Rhode Island(blue)
23. South Dakota(red)
24. Iowa(blue)
25. Wisconsin(blue)
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Houston Texas
2,898 posts, read 2,882,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave01 View Post
Here is the top 25 states as far as GDP by capita, and whether they are red or blue state:

1. Delaware(blue)
2. Connecticut(blue)
3. Massachusetts(blue)
4. New York(blue)
5. New Jersey(blue)
6. Alaska(red)
7. Colorado(blue)
8. Virginia(blue)
9. California(blue)
10. Minnesota(blue)
11. Nevada(blue)
12. Washington(blue)
13. Illinois(blue)
14. Maryland(blue)
15. Wyoming(red)
16. Hawaii(blue)
17. New Hampshire(blue)
18. Oregon(blue)
19. Texas(red)
20. North Carolina(blue)
21. Nebraska(red)
22. Rhode Island(blue)
23. South Dakota(red)
24. Iowa(blue)
25. Wisconsin(blue)
Fairly meaningless statistics here. The "blue" states listed here are generally Northern and home heating costs as well as generally higher costs of living mean that incomes are higher to compensate for that.
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