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View Poll Results: Are Northeasterners Less Liberal than Perceived?
Yes 26 56.52%
No 9 19.57%
Perception is Accurate 11 23.91%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:56 AM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,387,108 times
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Not only is the liberal / conservative dichotomy simplistic, so is the socially conservative / socially liberal one. I wish people, starting with the media, would stop being so intellectually lazy.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: downeast
473 posts, read 628,672 times
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one of the definitions of a conservative is racism?
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,566,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
Voting for Obama certainly does not make you Liberal
And hence the reason that voting for McCain seems to make you conservative (since so many switched from voting Republican).
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:42 AM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,049,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommax3plus2 View Post
one of the definitions of a conservative is racism?
Good point.

While many racists vote conservative, not all conservatives are racist,

just as,

While many handgun control advocates vote liberal, not all liberals support handgun control.

The media, political scientists and radio talk show hosts would have us in one camp or the other, for their own convenience or benefit. Unfortunately for them, Americans are too complicated to be categorized this way.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Coastal Northeast
16,737 posts, read 23,166,303 times
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I'd say the most liberal states are NJ, CT and MA. All are part of an urbanized area and I think that's why.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,566,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post

The media, political scientists and radio talk show hosts would have us in one camp or the other, for their own convenience or benefit. Unfortunately for them, Americans are too complicated to be categorized this way.
I pretty sure that given the sum of a person's beliefs that one can be categorized as either more conservative or more liberal. Simply because people have a variety of liberal and conservative views doesn't negate this idea--that people will ultimately lean toward one side or the other.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 31,768,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
There are two types of conservatives: economic/foreign policy conservatives and social conservatives. The former have a strong presence in the northeast, the latter are very weak. "Guns, Gays and God" just doesn't resonate up here like it does elsewhere. The Republican politicians who have done well, Giuliani, Pataki, Weld, Ridge, etc., were are all pro-choice and, for the most part, pro-gay rights.

The McCain of 2000 could have been competitive here (he won New Hampshire) but, with his sharp turn to the social conservatives in 2004, he lost the moderates. Once he chose Sarah Palin it was all over.

It highlights the quandry faced by the Republican Party in general. Bill Clinton's greatest triumph (and probably most lasting legacy) was to demonstrate that Democrats could be fiscally responsible. It undercut the Republican's "socialist" charge in this election cycle. Without economic issues (and with Bush's foreign policy fiascos) they had little to campaign on except social issues and it, obviously, wasn't enough. Without a Clinton, I don't think there could have been an Obama.

If a Republican candidate were to drop the social issues, he or she could be competitive in New York and California. It would still be close, but competitive.
This post is spot on. I agree completely.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
There are two types of conservatives: economic/foreign policy conservatives and social conservatives. The former have a strong presence in the northeast, the latter are very weak. "Guns, Gays and God" just doesn't resonate up here like it does elsewhere. The Republican politicians who have done well, Giuliani, Pataki, Weld, Ridge, etc., were are all pro-choice and, for the most part, pro-gay rights.

If a Republican candidate were to drop the social issues, he or she could be competitive in New York and California. It would still be close, but competitive.
I find it interesting that so many from the Northeast claim to be Catholic, but apparently are very socially liberal.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:42 AM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,387,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
I pretty sure that given the sum of a person's beliefs that one can be categorized as either more conservative or more liberal. Simply because people have a variety of liberal and conservative views doesn't negate this idea--that people will ultimately lean toward one side or the other.
I recently took the Political Compass test and they put me slightly to the left both fiscally and socially, yet most people would probably pinpoint me as leaning to the right.

Actually, according to that test I'm nearly in the geometrical center of the spectrum, yet as far as I'm concerned there isn't a more vacuous concept than the political center, and I would take exception to being called a centrist.

You can't just work out the arithmetic mean of someone's views. It's like mixing apples with oranges.

Most things people acritically adscribe to the left or the right are actually quite random and baseless. For instance abortion seems to be one of the fault-proof tests to determine whether someone is a progressive or a conservative, yet it is rather debatable to say the least whether abortion progress either from a moral point of view or from a procedural point of view.

Similarly, many so called far right dictatorships were a lot more left-wing economically speaking than most modern democratic left-wing governments.

I could go on and on.

Leftism is usually a matter of style rather than substance. A so-called left-wing governement will operate in a free market capitalist environment but cover it all up in pretty liberal rhetotics. They will militarily intervene in international potitics in order to keep that same status quo but dress it up in pretty words of peace and universal harmony.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,566,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography Freak View Post
I recently took the Political Compass test and they put me slightly to the left both fiscally and socially, yet most people would probably pinpoint me as leaning to the right.

Actually, according to that test I'm nearly in the geometrical center of the spectrum, yet as far as I'm concerned there isn't a more vacuous concept than the political center, and I would take exception to being called a centrist.

You can't just work out the arithmetic mean of someone's views. It's like mixing apples with oranges.

Most things people acritically adscribe to the left or the right are actually quite random and baseless. For instance abortion seems to be one of the fault-proof tests to determine whether someone is a progressive or a conservative, yet it is rather debatable to say the least whether abortion progress either from a moral point of view or from a procedural point of view.

Similarly, many so called far right dictatorships were a lot more left-wing economically speaking than most modern democratic left-wing governments.

I could go on and on.

Leftism is usually a matter of style rather than substance. A so-called left-wing governement will operate in a free market capitalist environment but cover it all up in pretty liberal rhetotics. They will militarily intervene in international potitics in order to keep that same status quo but dress it up in pretty words of peace and universal harmony.

And you think I don't know this? You do vote don't you? If you do, I'm guessing that you've already taken the mean of your views (or determined which views you consider most important) and chosen one side over the other.
Anyhow, this thread is not intended to discuss what is liberal and conservative. If you can't accept that people are either generally liberal or conservative, then your posts may be off topic.
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