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Thread summary:

Metro area: traffic, downtown, democratic, republican, neighborhoods, taxes.

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticadon View Post
If you live in a town that has it's own functioning government outside of the parent city then there's no way you can be considered all in one.

North Jersey is apart of the NYC metro area and while the influence is there each of those towns function independent of the city.

To put it plainly..........no one from Newark would ever say they were from New York although technically the former is a suburb of the latter.
Virtually every suburb has its own functioning government. It may be a city governmnet, which is common here out west (just think back to the Rose Bowl; floats from the City of Pasedena, the City of Burbank, etc), a borough as in Pennsylvania (basically a small city), a township (also common in PA, actually meant for rural areas but there are some large townships arouond Pittsburgh), or just "the county", as in Omaha, and a few areas around here in Colorado, which, like California, has mostly suburban cities. (These are all places I am knowledgeable about; I'm sure there are others.) Once you are outside of the city limits, you are outside of the city's jusrisdiction. This is, of course, both good and bad.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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I think a metro area is a city. There are a few exceptions like the NYC area. It's hard to figure out where that metro ends and other starts, or if other metro areas, (like Harford) are more like suburbs of NYC in the grand scheme of things. Itís the same way in LA and San Francisco and Philly.

Here in KC, you donít' know what city or, state, you are in if you are a tourist. KC is one metro of over 2 million people. Sure, we have the snobby suburbanites that diss the city and never go there and may that don't even claim it, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still Kansas Citians.

And in KC, like most major metro areas, when you leave the built up area of the city/suburbs, you are in open country till the next major metro area, which could be hundreds of miles.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
A couple of weeks ago there was a thread that posed the question whether it was all right to say you were from a city if you lived in one of its suburbs. One post said something to the effect that a suburb is part of a city, so it made sense if you lived in a suburb to say you lived in the parent city. This post was challenged by others insisting that the city is the city and the 'burbs are the 'burbs and never the twain shall meet.

Still, physically, metro areas involve a great deal of economic integration between their individual communities, and collective populations of people who travel throught those metro areas as they go about their daily lives. I know that many city residents consider it a badge of honor to live right in the city, but let's try to be analytical about the question on this thread. In practical terms, is a metropolitan area really all one city? In what ways yes, and in what ways not?
(Disclaimer: I haven't read a single response to the opening post, so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone has said, or if the conversation has gone somewhere else and I'm completely off the mark)

I think it's up to the person speaking. Do they identify more with their suburb or the central city? I mean, ultimately, it's their opinion that matters so I'll go with what they say. The only time this interpretation could be misleading is if someone responds with the bigger city just because most people aren't familiar with their suburb.
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Virtually every suburb has its own functioning government. It may be a city governmnet, which is common here out west (just think back to the Rose Bowl; floats from the City of Pasedena, the City of Burbank, etc), a borough as in Pennsylvania (basically a small city), a township (also common in PA, actually meant for rural areas but there are some large townships arouond Pittsburgh), or just "the county", as in Omaha, and a few areas around here in Colorado, which, like California, has mostly suburban cities. (These are all places I am knowledgeable about; I'm sure there are others.) Once you are outside of the city limits, you are outside of the city's jusrisdiction. This is, of course, both good and bad.
I agree with this

I think people who subscribe to the all in one theory do so out of lack of pride for their own towns but also wanting to be affiliated with the parent city but not wanting the negative connotations that come with it (crime, drugs, etc).
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael84 View Post
When I was on Long Island, I would say I live on LI since many people know of it. Lots of people think I mean NYC since technically Queens and Brooklyn are on LI. But if I'm out of the country, I'll just say NYC to make it easier. I wasn't even that that far outside the city line anyway.
Jersey City isn't that far outside the city line either. Should they start calling themselves Manhattanites now?

Being close enough to NYC does not equate to being from NYC.

What happens when you do that out of town and the person you're talking to just happens to be from the city and starts asking you what area of the city you're from and about certain neighborhoods. What do you do then?

I've seen this happen to people who do what you do and the embarassement they felt was not nice.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticadon View Post
Jersey City isn't that far outside the city line either. Should they start calling themselves Manhattanites now?

Being close enough to NYC does not equate to being from NYC.

What happens when you do that out of town and the person you're talking to just happens to be from the city and starts asking you what area of the city you're from and about certain neighborhoods. What do you do then?

I've seen this happen to people who do what you do and the embarassement they felt was not nice.

Because most people know that Long Island is just outside NYC anyway. People do it in other cities, so what? So people outside NY can't do it either? Anyway, I AM from the city.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:51 AM
 
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The Hudson River marks boundary between New York and New Jersey, also the boundary between an urbanized area that's united as a single city (NYC, thanks to farsighted leaders back in the 19th century) and an urbanized area in Hudson and Bergen Counties that's a collection of separate municipalities. There's a real difference! The NYC denizens feel part of a single city, which they are; in nearby Jersey all the separate municipalities don't seem cohesive at all. Would it have been different if everything in Hudson County had merged under a single city government? I don't know.

Boston is different. Even though not so much of the urbanized area is part of the city, most everything inside 128 functions in many ways as part of the same city. But with much less equal distribution of public goods: wealthy towns like Brookline and Newton have great schools while Revere, Chelsea, etc. do not.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If the answer is YES, then Miami is bigger than Fresno. If the answer is NO, then Fresno is bigger than Miami. You decide.
I think this pretty much sums it up. Some areas may have a little different distinction. To compound on this not only would Fresno be bigger than Miami, so would Omaha, Indianapolis, Memphis, and Columbus, OH. Is Jacksonville a bigger city than San Francisco? Obviously, the answer would be no, because many city boundaries are simply imaginary political lines. If the center city wasn't so powerful, the suburbs, exurbs, etc. wouldn't even exist and these metropolitan areas that continue to grow it's suburban population do so because of the draw of the center city. Trust me, people move to Highlands Ranch because of Denver, they don't move across country because that suburb is a draw in and of itself. To sum it up, yes the metro area is effectively one city!
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:40 PM
 
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I'm with you on this, Ilovedenver. Jtur's observation about Fresno and Miami caught my attention as well. Something that comes to mind as I think about this is the difference between the way we regard cities and suburbs of today, when they are distinguished from each other by political boundaries, and the way cities must have been regarded in ancient times, middle times, and probably even early modern times. A city was just a large population center, with its boundaries recognized as the edges of settlement. As the population grew, the city expanded. As areas on the fringes filled in, they would come to be regarded as new sections of the city. Today, those areas on the fringes are often viewed as distinct from the city because people have laid out rigid boundaries to define distinct communities. In effect, though, as suburbs grow around a city, it's the same kind of expansion of the overall population center which centuries ago would have been viewed as an expansion of a single growing city.

Adding my thoughts to the observations others have expressed here, it seems to me that a city and a metropolitan area, and the metro area's components, can be viewed several ways:

Physically
Politically
Functionally
As a result of community identity.

Politcally, the situation is simple. We lay out political boundaries, and formally regard the areas they delineate as distinct communties. Political boundaries also have some effect on the functional definitions of a population center, because the division of local areas into officially distinct communties affects the areas covered by those public services provided locally. This can enhance the feeling of local character because different suburban towns will provide schools, roads, etc., of varying qualities. This all adds to the perception of community identity in a way in which people tend to identify local areas as distinct communities. We see this, for example, in the posts on here by New Jerseyans and residents of NYC who view NJ as distinct from NYC, even though the densely populated area on the NJ side of the Hudson River physically appears to be an extension of the central city outward from Manhattan.

On the other hand, in economic terms entire metropolitan areas function largely as single entities, because of the economic integration that results when people travel throughout a metro area for work, shopping, and entertainment. In this economic sense, it seems that an entire metropolitan area, even including exurban areas that would not look or feel remotely like a city to most people, will function as all one larger city.

Physically, an unbroken expanse of land that maintains a fairly high population density gives the appearance of all being one city. This has been pointed out by several users talking about the old, highly urban small cities in the densely built core area adjacent to Boston, inside rt. 128, though I myself pointed out that physically a modern American city could be regarded as extending into areas of lower population density than Boston's closest suburbs, given the lower density within the limits of many newer American cities.

To sum it up, it seems that there is a local sense of community identity based largely on the official boundaries of local communities, but it does seem that entire metro areas do function economically as all one city, and that physically there usually will be an expanse of population density high enough to give the sense of being all one urban center, despite political boundaries dividing this area into smaller local communties.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33064
Great post, ogre. I would like to add that I was speaking politically when I made my post. We can't vote for the mayor of Denver. People in Denver can't vote for the mayor of Louisville. But we're all metro Denverites! We even pay some of the same taxes.
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