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Old 03-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Doesn't really matter to me because all of the cities you mentioned have crappy weather. I've never been to Chicago but there are a LOT of people from there living out here in Cali and if they ever talk about their home town they'll first and foremost say that its a fun city quickly followed by how awful the winters are. That's the impression I get from hearing what people say to me about it. Whether I am misinformed or not is another matter, but if the general consensus out there from the street is that Chicago has awful weather then perhaps there's some truth to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly View Post
Again, you're missing the point. You said weather is subjective. You are correct. Don't you think that the people who moved from Chicago to California did so partly because they prefer warm weather? Their opinions about Chicago's weather would be pretty one-sided, no? I personally would be absolutely miserable living in a place like Arizona or Memphis or anywhere in the south where I have to suffer through the heat and humidity from April through November. Some people may like that, but I would hate it. I want four distinct seasons. The cities I mentioned don't all have "crappy weather" to ALL people, otherwise, cities like Boston and Chicago wouldn't be as celebrated as they are.

**The point is, you can't call a city "miserable" on a list because it has bad weather to SOME people. Weather is subjective. Just like you said.
I agree woth ForYourLungs, and also with the guy who said you shouldn't judge a place if you've never been there. Too many people on CD do that.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,499,729 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by west336 View Post
Let Mr. Sunshine judge all he wants about Chicago or the Midwest. Anything and everything can live in coastal California because the weather never changes and it's always moderate. It takes ZERO character to put up with weather there (not that it keeps people from complaining anyways). Like I said, if weather somehow correlated with greatness, Haiti and the Dominican Republic would be Paris. But since it doesn't, it means just about NOTHING towards the success/failure of a city.
You make a good point. The vast majority of the world's population is in the temperate climate zone, not tropical.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,499,729 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Only problem is.... me and a lot of people really don't want to live in Chicago or the Midwest for that matter. Part of the reason Austin is seen as affordable is because its compared to more desirable cities like San Francisco, Seattle, etc. Compared to SF, Austin's a steal.

A lot of those cities mentioned above aren't really valid comparisons: Most are cheap for very good reasons.

If that be the case then you're going to have to wait for decades if not 100+ years. It took well over 250 years for the Northeast to reach its peak population growth. As a Southerner I can tell you that the vast majority of the Southeast is still very rural. The cities in comparison are also tiny. There are also very few land use regulations. That's why its sprawly in many instances. But hey- its cheap. Yes- the prices have gone up to an extent. But you still got a lot of bang for your buck.
So wait, you don't really have any argument about COL then, since you clearly don't actually value it. You can't use that as a reason when you dismiss large portions of the country that have MUCH lower COL and don't really offer anything different vs the more established cities of the North. You can't say that you like Austin because it's cheaper relative to the most expensive cities in the country and still be taken seriously on the COL point.

And what reasons would they be, exactly?

The vast majority of the North is very rural, what's your point? And a lot of the major cities in the South are already close in size to the major cities of the North. Do you honestly believe that travel and migration is as hard now as it was 100 years ago? Please. COL is going to rise a lot faster than you think if population trends keep going this way, and then what argument will you have to make? And I already have proven that wrong anyway. You just do NOT get more "bank for your buck". It's an outright fabrication.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,425 posts, read 8,789,544 times
Reputation: 7734
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiodude84 View Post
1. Stockton

2. Memphis

3. Chicago

4. Cleveland

5. Modesto

6. Flint

7. Detroit

8. Buffalo

9. Miami

10. St. Louis

Other rust belt cities didn't fare too well either :-(

Oddly I didn't see a mention of its horrible crime rate (worst for any of the big cities).

Will it ever rebound??? How did a once hailed American city get here, and how can other cities learn from its mistakes?
Ahhhhh but they have just elected one of the most brilliant X ballet dancers as Mayor...what more could one ask for?
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:10 PM
 
2,109 posts, read 5,138,088 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
So wait, you don't really have any argument about COL then, since you clearly don't actually value it. You can't use that as a reason when you dismiss large portions of the country that have MUCH lower COL and don't really offer anything different vs the more established cities of the North. You can't say that you like Austin because it's cheaper relative to the most expensive cities in the country and still be taken seriously on the COL point.

Using the previous argument about cheaper Northern cities as listed is akin to suggesting that even though most people would prefer to buy a shiny new sports car why- you can buy cheaper cars. Why.... you could buy a fully loaded 10 year old econo-car. Wow! I mean- why not? They all have 4 wheels and steering wheels, right? What's the difference?

But getting back to the core argument here is that weather is indeed a major factor in regards to where people choose to live. Why didn't people move down South immediately? Because up until very recently it was economically depressed- as it was when I was a kid. But now there are just as many- if not more opportunities in the South as any other part of the country. Given the choice, people are moving.

Yes- I'll freely admit I am not a cold weather person. I "survived" Boston for several years. The winters were frankly AWFUL and totally not enjoyable. I got so sick of the snow. It made the whole landscape look bleak and depressing. Then it all turned into a nasty muddy slush and then froze. To me my take is that its a free country so live where you want. Thus why I can most definitely tell you cold weather is not for me. So yes- I have some bias. I'm most definitely glad I don't live in the snow belt. That's for sure.

Last edited by sliverbox; 03-01-2011 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,499,729 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Using the previous argument about cheaper Northern cities as listed is akin to suggesting that even though most people would prefer to buy a Toyota Camry why- you can buy cheaper cars. Why.... you could buy a fully loaded Yugo.Wow! I mean- why not? They all have 4 wheels and steering wheels, right? What's the difference?
And I didn't make the COL argument, you did. You said you were moving to Austin because it was cheaper than the North, which I proved untrue in the vast majority of it. Further, I suspect that, just like Chicago, you haven't actually been to most if not all of those cities but believe you are qualified to speak of them. I've never been to Austin, and that's why I haven't said anything negative about it that I can't provide actual facts to support, such as COL. Your opinions of cities you have no experience with makes YOU the Yugo of the discussion. You need to educate yourself. You have been proven wrong at every turn in this thread. Time to step back.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:06 PM
 
2,109 posts, read 5,138,088 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
And I didn't make the COL argument, you did. You said you were moving to Austin because it was cheaper than the North, which I proved untrue in the vast majority of it. Further, I suspect that, just like Chicago, you haven't actually been to most if not all of those cities but believe you are qualified to speak of them. I've never been to Austin, and that's why I haven't said anything negative about it that I can't provide actual facts to support, such as COL. Your opinions of cities you have no experience with makes YOU the Yugo of the discussion. You need to educate yourself. You have been proven wrong at every turn in this thread. Time to step back.
Are there cheaper cities in the North? Sure. Do I want to live in those places? No. Have I lived in the North? Yes and no I did not like the cold winters. Have I been to Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Atlanta, and a number of other cities? Yes. Let me put it this way: The cold weather in places like Chicago automatically personally marks it off my list. Simple as that and I believe many others are compelled to feel the same way- hence the reason an article like this from Forbes was written.

On the other hand I have been to a lot of the other cities mentioned in a lot of the top 10 articles. I had a blast. You want to know why? Because they are young, vibrant, growing, entrepreneurial cities. What's more- they are affordable, even by national standards. You can buy a pretty nice house in a safe neighborhood close to the city in just about any of those I mentioned for under $150,000 or even less.

Either way, I don't really see why we should continue this argument because its clear we all have very strong opinions about the matter. I have no problem with the Northeast and Chicago. Some people like it and some don't. That's perfectly fine. We agree to disagree which I can respect. Thus I've said all I really care to say on the matter. Hopefully no hard feelings.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,499,729 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Are there cheaper cities in the North? Sure. Do I want to live in those places? No. Have I lived in the North? Yes and no I did not like the cold winters. Have I been to Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Atlanta, and a number of other cities? Yes. Let me put it this way: The cold weather in places like Chicago automatically personally marks it off my list. Simple as that and I believe many others are compelled to feel the same way- hence the reason an article like this from Forbes was written.

On the other hand I have been to a lot of the other cities mentioned in a lot of the top 10 articles. I had a blast. You want to know why? Because they are young, vibrant, growing, entrepreneurial cities. What's more- they are affordable, even by national standards. You can buy a pretty nice house in a safe neighborhood close to the city in just about any of those I mentioned for under $150,000 or even less.

Either way, I don't really see why we should continue this argument because its clear we all have very strong opinions about the matter. I have no problem with the Northeast and Chicago. Some people like it and some don't. That's perfectly fine. We agree to disagree which I can respect. Thus I've said all I really care to say on the matter. Hopefully no hard feelings.
No hard feelings as I don't take this stuff personally. However, I will speak out every time I feel like misinformation is being presented, and I felt it was being done so here. It's fine if you don't like cold, it's fine if you don't like Northern cities. My problem is when people make claims about places they don't like that are untrue, especially when they haven't bothered to even visit. I know it seems to be the SOP here at City Data, though.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:00 PM
 
3,596 posts, read 7,709,405 times
Reputation: 2878
Yeah, Forbes also cites Joel Kotkin as a valid measure of judgment.

At some point you have to consider the value of your sources, and on Forbes I'm cutting myself some space.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: South South Jersey
1,652 posts, read 3,410,924 times
Reputation: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Are there cheaper cities in the North? Sure. Do I want to live in those places? No. Have I lived in the North? Yes and no I did not like the cold winters. Have I been to Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Atlanta, and a number of other cities? Yes. Let me put it this way: The cold weather in places like Chicago automatically personally marks it off my list. Simple as that and I believe many others are compelled to feel the same way- hence the reason an article like this from Forbes was written.

On the other hand I have been to a lot of the other cities mentioned in a lot of the top 10 articles. I had a blast. You want to know why? Because they are young, vibrant, growing, entrepreneurial cities. What's more- they are affordable, even by national standards. You can buy a pretty nice house in a safe neighborhood close to the city in just about any of those I mentioned for under $150,000 or even less.

Either way, I don't really see why we should continue this argument because its clear we all have very strong opinions about the matter. I have no problem with the Northeast and Chicago. Some people like it and some don't. That's perfectly fine. We agree to disagree which I can respect. Thus I've said all I really care to say on the matter. Hopefully no hard feelings.
Parts of Oregon and Washington can be damn cold, even in the summer (when I was in SW OR a few summers ago, we had to wear sweaters plus light jackets for long strings of days at a time). OTOH, I've personally never experienced such chilly weather in Chicago in July. Is it just 'snow,' specifically, that you don't like?

Last edited by Alicia Bradley; 03-02-2011 at 09:03 PM..
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