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Old 02-21-2009, 06:25 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,904,692 times
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I just thought it was a bunch of Northern posters trying to convince themselves they won the war. They did on paper, but the Southerners saw the error of their ways and made a better life for themselves. We must have anyway. Everybody wants what we have now. The county I live in is one of the fastest growing counties in America. It was the fastest growing county in America for two years in a row. I will tell you though that anyone that comes here telling us how much better it was back home will have about 10 people wanting to be very helpful in helping you to move back. You are welcome if you want to join in our way of life, but we don't want our county to turn into what you left. We were doing just fine before you came.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,187,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
I just thought it was a bunch of Northern posters trying to convince themselves they won the war. They did on paper, but the Southerners saw the error of their ways and made a better life for themselves. We must have anyway. Everybody wants what we have now. The county I live in is one of the fastest growing counties in America. It was the fastest growing county in America for two years in a row. I will tell you though that anyone that comes here telling us how much better it was back home will have about 10 people wanting to be very helpful in helping you to move back. You are welcome if you want to join in our way of life, but we don't want our county to turn into what you left. We were doing just fine before you came.
I don't want what you have, not at all. You can keep it for all I care. The same holds true for those who move into our area and tell us how great the South is and how much better it is. I'll hold the door for you and point the way back down. And yes, I do have neighbors who have moved into this area from Southern states. Most really like it actually. I've lived in the South and believe me, you don't have anything we don't... except maybe cypress swamps and gators, damn, you can for sure keep those. The cypress swamps are very pretty though.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,767,214 times
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Originally Posted by CHIP72 View Post
Incidentally, I think most Civil War experts (which I do not claim to be) believe the war lasted as long as it did because the South had superior military commanders, especially in the Virginia/Maryland theater. The South lost essentially because of military and especially economic attrition, but that's not a black mark on the South's military leaders


I think many modern scholars would disagree with those notions. I think the Confederacy was killed by Rebels making bad decisions and Yankees making right ones. I could go on at length but will spare you.

Regards
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:35 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,767,214 times
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Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
I've lived in the South and believe me, you don't have anything we don't... except maybe cypress swamps and gators, damn, you can for sure keep those.

And they don't have walleye and whitefish.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:39 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Well Tex I've read a great deal of what Grant said and wrote (I even have the first edition of his memoirs) and I never ran across him saying that and it would've been unlike him to think that.
Here is the quote, Tom.

"If I thought this war was to abolish slavery, I would resign my commission and offer my sword to the other side. Ulysses S. Grant
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,159,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
I just thought it was a bunch of Northern posters trying to convince themselves they won the war. They did on paper, but the Southerners saw the error of their ways and made a better life for themselves. We must have anyway. Everybody wants what we have now. The county I live in is one of the fastest growing counties in America. It was the fastest growing county in America for two years in a row. I will tell you though that anyone that comes here telling us how much better it was back home will have about 10 people wanting to be very helpful in helping you to move back. You are welcome if you want to join in our way of life, but we don't want our county to turn into what you left. We were doing just fine before you came.
The biggest reason people are moving to "the South" (and for that matter "the Southwest") can be summed up in 3 words - central air conditioning.

Last edited by CHIP72; 02-21-2009 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,767,214 times
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Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Here is the quote, Tom.

"If I thought this war was to abolish slavery, I would resign my commission and offer my sword to the other side.” Ulysses S. Grant

You'll have to cite that Tex, I think that quote is an urban myth spread on the internet, one I've heard quite a bit lately but never until lately. And this after reading tons of books about this since, oh, 1955 or so.

In any event most Federals fought to preserve the Union not to free slaves. Anti slavery feeling among Federal soldiers became stronger as the war went on but it didn't motivate many to enlist in the first place.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:56 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,904,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
I don't want what you have, not at all. You can keep it for all I care. The same holds true for those who move into our area and tell us how great the South is and how much better it is. I'll hold the door for you and point the way back down. And yes, I do have neighbors who have moved into this area from Southern states. Most really like it actually. I've lived in the South and believe me, you don't have anything we don't... except maybe cypress swamps and gators, damn, you can for sure keep those. The cypress swamps are very pretty though.
No cypress swamps or gators here. And if I had talked like your language, my mother would have spanked my bottom.
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:06 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Tex--Well let's run it down buddy.

Robert E. Lee was a large army commander of great skill. But after him I can think of no other capable Confederate large army commander.

Stonewall Jackson was a small army commander of great skill and also a most capable corps commander.

Richard Taylor commanded a small Confederate army very well during the Red River campaign but remember that his antagonist was Banks, one of the dumbest Yankees ever.

Forrest was a small unit commander, cavalry commander and raider of great skill but he never commanded a major force.

Early did well as a commander of a small army; he was whipped but he did about as well as anyone can reasonably expect.

Longstreet was a most capable corps commander under Lee but when he went west except for his performence at Chickamauga he was a total failure and insubordinate and damned near mutinous to boot. He was whipped by Burnside of all people.

A.P.Hill was a brilliant division commander, then a very poor corps commander and then matured into a pretty good corps commander; then he was killed.

At the brigade level the Confederates were generally very skillful but had increasing trouble at the division and corps level. It's hard to think of a single brilliant corps commander in the western Confederate armies where the Federals had a wealth of talented corps commanders---Thomas, McPherson, Sherman, Ord, MacClernand, Dodge, Wood, Stanley, AJ Smith, MacArthur, Blair, Jefferson C. Davis.....man, no wonder the Federals went from victory to victory in the West. Why even ole Oliver Howard and his stumblebum Eleventh Corps did well when they went West. Must'a been gettin' rid of those silly caps and getting some proper Western Yankee slouch hats.

Color Guard of the 8th Wisconsin Infantry and their mascot "Old Abe"
Tom, my friend, you are making comparrisons against a "what if" standard. Fer gosh sakes.

And as I said earlier, there is simply no way to argue against result!

But how many men did Grant lose taking Petersburg? Even in the North they began calling him "the butcher". He was only a great general in the sense that he realized the South could not replace the men lost. He could replace his. So like a steam hammer, he kept it up. That was not really the mark of a great strategist as it was one who saw that he could eventually beat the Army of Northern Virginia by continally wearing them down...at the cost of lives. Wasn't it something like 50,000?

Army to army, general to general, man to man, you gotta admit the South -- in the early stages of the War -- flat whipped the yankees, overall. The Southern generals came from the cream of the military crop, and the men under their command could fight like hell.

Even most of the federal leaders admitted as much. This doesn't take away that the northern soldiers were not very brave and dedicated men. Not at all.

One of the quotes by an un-named federal officer, in awe and admiration of the Southern men said:

"It is beyond all wonder how the Rebel soldiers fight on as they do. That miserable, hungry, and worn, they prove themselves such heroes in a fight is past all explanation..."

It is easy to make a case that the North had the best generals on their side if one proceeds from result, and with the might of the northern unlimitted supply of men and resources behind them....

Last edited by TexasReb; 02-21-2009 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,187,492 times
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Originally Posted by NCN View Post
No cypress swamps or gators here. And if I had talked like your language, my mother would have spanked my bottom.
Mine too, but I'm an adult now and can speak how I choose. Plus she is 1500 miles away .

If you don't have cypress swamps and gators, you don't have a thing then we in the North don't have already.
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