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Thread summary:

Considering moving from Florida and finding employment in Oil City, cost of living too high in South Florida, cannot make it without a six figure salary

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Old 03-26-2007, 02:32 PM
 
Location: N.W. Austin.
802 posts, read 2,609,237 times
Reputation: 546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn View Post
So don't be so hard and condescending on NAH and please don't laugh at those of us who have suffered from the nation's having a large oversupply of college graduates as a result of the nation's "Education Arms Race". NAH is not alone in this predicament. Although suffering such a fate carries with it a stigma of shame and failure, if you understand what's happening to the nation's economy and why we have an education arm's race, people shouldn't be ashamed of it.

I'll start by addressing this point. I was NOT being condescending to NAH. If you've read his posts you'd understand that most, if not all, those that respond to his posts believe he's not all there. I think he enjoys the attention and cultivates these responses deliberately. Why? Who knows...?

As for the rest of your contention regarding graduates being:
Quote:
"underemployed, involuntarily-out-field, unemployable in their career fields" and the media and politcians ' don't want to talk about or even acknowledge the existence of this growing group of Americans..."
Total hogwash! The dirty little secret is the entitlement attitude that's permeated generations that believe they can walk on water, crap gold and tinkle oil...Excuse the language. The workplace is a market just like any other. Have an in-demand skill and you dictate the terms of employment, if you don't, you will take whatever the employer is willing to offer and like it. Nothing complicated about that.
Furthermore, even if you have a skill in demand, and the demand for it is in Podunk, TX or Boonies, IA, then you'd better be willing to move there to be compensated accordingly. No reason to whine in NY, CA, FL or TX about a lack of gainful employment in your field when opportunities are going begging elsewhere. That's how that H1-B visa mess began, in case you didn't know...

The only sound economic policy is to live within your means. I can't help but laugh at seeing people shell out $50 for a shirt or pair of pants. If the objective is to be clothed, I'm pretty sure you can get that done at a fraction of that amount. If what you want is the NAME emblazoned on the clothes to show the rest of the world you've arrived, enjoy the added expense. $5 for a cup of coffee? Excuse me as I laugh hysterically. I don't begrudge anyone the choices they make, I just think it's foolish to indulge so wantonly in WANTS rather than NEEDS. The same people whining about how out of control costs are, are the same ones making poor decisions on a daily basis and never want to be held accountable for them.
The same for education. Everyone makes a choice as to what they want to do with their life. With that decision comes a responsibility for success or failure in life, whatever your criteria maybe. Little Johnny or Susie wants to be a physical therapist or bus driver, fine, as long as they understand that there may not be a whole lot of demand.
It's become increasingly clear that kids are being raised with the expectation that the world owes them for getting an education, and if they don't get what they think they're worth, then it's the employers fault. Maybe time for a little self examination. Personal accountability and responsibility seems to be an alien concept nowadays.

My personal example is, I could move states and make 2-3 times what I do, but I have no interest in doing so. Lack of ambition? Nope, no desire to get involved in the rat race. I've found my niche for now and am content. I am under no illusion that this will be the case 5-10 years down the road. When that time comes, I will make an assessment and decide what next.



 
Old 03-26-2007, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities, CA
199 posts, read 1,033,219 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need_affordable_home View Post
My first job in south FL they did. Got $8 an hour instead of the FL min wage of $6.30(or something) but $8 an hour did me no good in south FL and I already spent that money on the crazy south FL a/c bills I really cant wait to move out.
Maybe this is off topic, but are you bringing in any income now? How are you paying your A/C bills if you don't have a job?
My college age kids had jobs while going to college even when they lived at home. They are still attending college and have been very fortunate to have good paying jobs in their fields of interest. They pay their own bills and live on their own now. If they move back home or other of my children are home but done with school, I expect that they will get work of some kind and contribute to the housing costs, even if they are saving for a big opportunity elsewhere.
 
Old 03-26-2007, 03:12 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 23,616,446 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister View Post
I'll start by addressing this point. I was NOT being condescending to NAH. If you've read his posts you'd understand that most, if not all, those that respond to his posts believe he's not all there. I think he enjoys the attention and cultivates these responses deliberately. Why? Who knows...?

As for the rest of your contention regarding graduates being:

Total hogwash! The dirty little secret is the entitlement attitude that's permeated generations that believe they can walk on water, crap gold and tinkle oil...Excuse the language. The workplace is a market just like any other. Have an in-demand skill and you dictate the terms of employment, if you don't, you will take whatever the employer is willing to offer and like it. Nothing complicated about that.
Furthermore, even if you have a skill in demand, and the demand for it is in Podunk, TX or Boonies, IA, then you'd better be willing to move there to be compensated accordingly. No reason to whine in NY, CA, FL or TX about a lack of gainful employment in your field when opportunities are going begging elsewhere. That's how that H1-B visa mess began, in case you didn't know...

The only sound economic policy is to live within your means. I can't help but laugh at seeing people shell out $50 for a shirt or pair of pants. If the objective is to be clothed, I'm pretty sure you can get that done at a fraction of that amount. If what you want is the NAME emblazoned on the clothes to show the rest of the world you've arrived, enjoy the added expense. $5 for a cup of coffee? Excuse me as I laugh hysterically. I don't begrudge anyone the choices they make, I just think it's foolish to indulge so wantonly in WANTS rather than NEEDS. The same people whining about how out of control costs are, are the same ones making poor decisions on a daily basis and never want to be held accountable for them.
The same for education. Everyone makes a choice as to what they want to do with their life. With that decision comes a responsibility for success or failure in life, whatever your criteria maybe. Little Johnny or Susie wants to be a physical therapist or bus driver, fine, as long as they understand that there may not be a whole lot of demand.
It's become increasingly clear that kids are being raised with the expectation that the world owes them for getting an education, and if they don't get what they think they're worth, then it's the employers fault. Maybe time for a little self examination. Personal accountability and responsibility seems to be an alien concept nowadays.

My personal example is, I could move states and make 2-3 times what I do, but I have no interest in doing so. Lack of ambition? Nope, no desire to get involved in the rat race. I've found my niche for now and am content. I am under no illusion that this will be the case 5-10 years down the road. When that time comes, I will make an assessment and decide what next.


O' my Spooky be careful you are hitting far to close to the true.

Too many people want a First Class ride for the price of a Fourth Class ticket.

Tough when that ride, requires homework, background research, decisions and actions in a coordinated manner. Usually called life but it is also in the person's hands to make it happen. Others can only advise, attempt to clarify, present alternative courses or broaden horizons. The shame is when the materials hit the fan it will be all your fault. That happened to me with a former neighbor who did many of the type things we hear about around here. He actually used those words. It is all your fault. The sad part, he was serious. Ah, the choices we make and who is to blame for them.
 
Old 03-26-2007, 03:41 PM
 
Location: PA
669 posts, read 2,944,858 times
Reputation: 278
NAH doesn't pay the bills, I know that much. He has told me that much. He has no job and essentially no life it sounds like.
 
Old 03-26-2007, 03:46 PM
 
Location: N.W. Austin.
802 posts, read 2,609,237 times
Reputation: 546
Cosmic, The Truth, hard as it maybe to swallow, has to be spoken instead of this molly-coddling that people have gotten used to. An employer is not responsible for happiness, or expensive habits for that matter. They pay for a job to be done, commensurate with the skills and supply of that skill.
"I WANT" should be pre-faced with the understanding that you're going to get it yourself, not an expectation that someone else will foot the bill.
 
Old 03-27-2007, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,116 posts, read 7,157,300 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
In places with a booming economy like the DC area people have choices. Here in Northern VA there is a labor shortage and a resulting high cost of living.
Perhaps some of the labor shortage is the result of the completely insane cost of living in that area? It isn't merely that the cost of living in NoVA and the DC area in general is outrageous, but the quality of life is also awful unless you enjoy living in an area with a huge popluation density and being packed in like a sardine. The DC area economy might be booming, but it reminds me of how Silicon Valley or New York City might have also been booming at one time. Sure, you might be able to find a job that pays decently, but will you be any further ahead after subtracting the cost of living and the decreased quality of life?
 
Old 03-27-2007, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,116 posts, read 7,157,300 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister View Post
I'll start by addressing this point. I was NOT being condescending to NAH. If you've read his posts you'd understand that most, if not all, those that respond to his posts believe he's not all there. I think he enjoys the attention and cultivates these responses deliberately. Why? Who knows...?
I'm not real familiar with him and after I submitted that post I realized that he only had a two year associates degree and that he wasn't referring to a bachelor's degree. Point taken.

Quote:
Total hogwash! The dirty little secret is the entitlement attitude that's permeated generations that believe they can walk on water, crap gold and tinkle oil...Excuse the language. The workplace is a market just like any other. Have an in-demand skill and you dictate the terms of employment, if you don't, you will take whatever the employer is willing to offer and like it. Nothing complicated about that.
I don't disagree with the general principal that people need to take responsibility for themselves and that they need to realize that they need to possess substantive ability in a their career fields. However, at the same time, I'm not so naive as to believe that we have a meritocracy in this country and that people always get what they deserve.

A person's success will be determined by a combination of rationality, intelligence, creativity, hard work, preparation, perseverance, and relatively "inate" people skills and sales skills. However, it's also determined by luck, the avoidance of bad luck, the supply and quality of competitors in the field, and the state of the nation's economy.

For this reason, it isn't illegitimate or irresponsible to protest the state of the nation's economy. Also, we need to acknowledge the reality that in a horse race, only one horse can win the race even though the other horses might be very fast and very admirable. That's why I don't regard hard-working but underemployed Ph.D. scientists as losers or incompetent morons. Likewise, I understand that we have an oversupply of competent, hard-working people in almost every field today.

Quote:
Furthermore, even if you have a skill in demand, and the demand for it is in Podunk, TX or Boonies, IA, then you'd better be willing to move there to be compensated accordingly. No reason to whine in NY, CA, FL or TX about a lack of gainful employment in your field when opportunities are going begging elsewhere. That's how that H1-B visa mess began, in case you didn't know...
I agree, people need to move to where the jobs in their field are located.

Regarding the foreign work visas, they are a government-provided subsidy to businesses and an outright attack on the nation's middle class. Free market economics has a way of dealing with shortages or supply relative to demand--higher price points--higher wages. America has no shortage of people who would gladly train themselves to be qualified to fill high-paying jobs in career fields that offer job security. For example, the supply of Americans who want to go to medical school is very high. However, because businesses do not want to pay American-free-market rates, they have been lying to the politicians about an alleged shortage of Americans able to do certain jobs and thus Congress has continued to allow the work visas in spite of the screams of unemployed and underemployed people in various fields.

Quote:
The only sound economic policy is to live within your means. I can't help but laugh at seeing people shell out $50 for a shirt or pair of pants. If the objective is to be clothed, I'm pretty sure you can get that done at a fraction of that amount. If what you want is the NAME emblazoned on the clothes to show the rest of the world you've arrived, enjoy the added expense. $5 for a cup of coffee? Excuse me as I laugh hysterically.
I most definitely agree with you here. I'm a total cheapskate in these regards. I like buying $5 shirts when they're on clearance at Kohls and I just make my own coffee or tea. For that matter, I don't plan to have any children simply because I can't afford it (children are for the rich IMHO).

Quote:
The same for education. Everyone makes a choice as to what they want to do with their life. With that decision comes a responsibility for success or failure in life, whatever your criteria maybe. Little Johnny or Susie wants to be a physical therapist or bus driver, fine, as long as they understand that there may not be a whole lot of demand.
It's become increasingly clear that kids are being raised with the expectation that the world owes them for getting an education, and if they don't get what they think they're worth, then it's the employers fault. Maybe time for a little self examination. Personal accountability and responsibility seems to be an alien concept nowadays.
And this is where we disagree, to an extent. My point is that people's careers don't occurr in a vacuum and that the state of the nation's economy also plays a very significant role. You might respond, "well then, people need to obtain degrees in fields where there is tremendous demand", and I will respond, "name the fields". We need about 150,000 new jobs every month to accommodate the growth of the population of working-aged adults and the economy has done a poor job of keeping up with population growth and many of those jobs are in low-paid service fields.

Biotechnology? Errt. We already have a large oversupply of people with biology degrees (folks who had hoped to head med) and a large oversupply of life sciences PhDs. Besides, those jobs can be filled by visa holders or sent overseas.

Nanotechnology? Last I looked it was a microscopic field (no pun intended) and much of the work will probably be done overseas.

Computer programming? I doubt I need to comment on this one.

Patent Law (field with two barriers to entry)? We have an oversupply of practitioners for this and some of the work is being sent to India.

Professional degrees--MBA, Law--we have an oversupply.

Physician--it's a great field but only because the number of people who can become physicians is artificially limited relative to the market demand of people who are qualified to become doctors, so cross it off the list.

Nursing--OK--I'll give you that one, but note that it's essentially a blue collar field and that people are already rushing into it to fill the demand (which might end up getting filled by visa holders).

Engineering--some of the engineering fields are doing well, but overall the field isn't large enough to make much of a dent in the nation's college-education-requiring career jobs crisis.

In summary, while I agree that personal responsibility is important, I also believe that many hard-working men and women of ability can end up having little financial and career success through no real fault of their own because of factors beyond their control, such as the direction of the nation's economy and the nation's education arms race and resultant large oversupply of able college-educated labor.
 
Old 03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
 
Location: CA
595 posts, read 1,022,525 times
Reputation: 348
I find it hilarious that this ad is directly below OP'S post.

Find Only Six Figure Jobs Search 25,000 Openings (www.TheLadders.com)
 
Old 03-27-2007, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,298,838 times
Reputation: 1410
Bhallspawn

Thanks for your posts on this topic....saves me the words! I could not agree more. I have the masters and NAH would be interested to know I was just offered 45,000 for a job....and I have about 8 years of experience too. It actually hurt to turn it down, but I HAD to. I have worked so hard, and have to start demanding more money or I will never pay back my college loans.

All I can say is this....many people here are out of touch with the reality facing young people and college graduates now. Its not about pulling yourselves up by your bootstraps (what my parents like to say). Its a much tougher world than our parents lived in...as far as getting a good job. I know many wont agree, but its my reality.

Anyway, I think everyone is a little too hard on NSH. He asked a question and got personally attacked.

Yes, Nah, I do think moving to a place that is more expensive to live is not worthwhile if the salary is not right. I did not move for that 45,000 as I Would have been going backwards. I can make less in my current locale, and work less too.

I appreciate that your asking questions and doing research....best to you, and dont ever underestimate a college education. It may not always ensure you will make a lot of money...but it will improve your quality of life, so long as it doesn't put you 100,000 in debt. There are some great state schools out there that are not so expensive, and you only have two years to go.
 
Old 03-28-2007, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,796,698 times
Reputation: 4901
I feel that moving to a cheap city is worth it, if that city comes with low taxes, few regulations and plenty of open space. Smart, competitive people can find a way to make a good living if the resources are not tied up with a priveleged few.
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