If Virginia is considered Mid-Atlantic- why isn't Kentucky? (trailer, parks)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You have to be joking. West Memphis, Arkansas? Effingham, Illinois is not even remotely similar to it. It is far more resemblant to Wisconsin. If there is Southern culture there, I haven't noticed it. Effingham is almost in Central Illinois, for crying out loud. It has far more in common with St. Louis and Indianapolis than with any Southern city. People from there have a Midwestern accent, there is no Southern culture that I've noticed. How you could call that not the Midwest is beyond me. Effingham is NOTHING like West Memphis, Arkansas. NOTHING like it.

So you say. From up here, it sure looks like it. Pickup trucks, 200-foot-tall crosses, Confederate flags, and yes, an accent that to our northern ears up here sounds southern.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Drover

So you say. From up here, it sure looks like it. Pickup trucks, 200-foot-tall crosses, Confederate flags, and yes, an accent that to our northern ears up here sounds southern.

Confederate flags? That's a new one. Don't remember seeing any the numerous times I have been there. I've seen Confederate flags in places that are not in the South plenty of times too. It probably sounds Southern to you because you are in the Upper Midwest, which is not the same as the Lower Midwest. You are probably used to hearing the Great Lakes accent with a slight Canadian touch to it. People in Effingham talk with maybe a bit of a twang, but it is nothing like Kentucky, Tennessee, or Arkansas. One of my fellow classmates originated from Effingham. He speaks with a twang, but for the most part the accent is fairly flat. Most of rural Central Indiana, such as in Terre Haute, and Central Illinois, which Effingham doesn't happen to be very far from, talk with the same accent. If that is a Southern accent to you, I guess anything with even a slight difference from your accent sounds Southern. The dialect maps place the Southern accent well to the south of Effingham, roughly around the Ohio valley. The Southern Midwest in general tends to have an accent with a slight Southern drawl to it but is overall MUCH flatter than in Kentucky. If you want a real Southern accent, try going to Paducah or Louisville...THAT is a Southern accent. Effingham doesn't sound even remotely like that.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Confederate flags? That's a new one. Don't remember seeing any the numerous times I have been there. I've seen Confederate flags in places that are not in the South plenty of times too. It probably sounds Southern to you because you are in the Upper Midwest, which is not the same as the Lower Midwest. You are probably used to hearing the Great Lakes accent with a slight Canadian touch to it. People in Effingham talk with maybe a bit of a twang, but it is nothing like Kentucky, Tennessee, or Arkansas. One of my fellow classmates originated from Effingham. He speaks with a twang, but for the most part the accent is fairly flat. Most of rural Central Indiana, such as in Terre Haute, and Central Illinois, which Effingham doesn't happen to be very far from, talk with the same accent. If that is a Southern accent to you, I guess anything with even a slight difference from your accent sounds Southern. The dialect maps place the Southern accent well to the south of Effingham, roughly around the Ohio valley. The Southern Midwest in general tends to have an accent with a slight Southern drawl to it but is overall MUCH flatter than in Kentucky. If you want a real Southern accent, try going to Paducah or Louisville...THAT is a Southern accent. Effingham doesn't sound even remotely like that.

The upper Midwest isn't the same as the lower Midwest -- well no kiddin'. That's exactly my point. Effingham is roughly parallel with the northern portion of the Ohio Valley. The twang around there isn't "slight." It's quite noticeable to just about anyone north of Champaign, an area that really does have a "slight" twang. And no, the accent is not that different from Kentucky -- or western Kentucky anyway. The accent varies quite notably throughout Kentucky.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Drover

The upper Midwest isn't the same as the lower Midwest -- well no kiddin'. That's exactly my point. Effingham is roughly parallel with the northern portion of the Ohio Valley. The twang around there isn't "slight." It's quite noticeable to just about anyone north of Champaign, an area that really does have a "slight" twang. And no, the accent is not that different from Kentucky -- or western Kentucky anyway. The accent varies quite notably throughout Kentucky.

Right, so the Ohio Valley extends over 150 miles to the north If Effingham is in the Ohio valley, so is Indianapolis then. Champaign has no Southern drawl whatsoever. I have a friend from Warrensburg, Illinois, near Decatur, and she and her family talk with perfectly flat accents. Effingham's accent is a far cry from a Southern accent. They don't say y'all, they don't twang practically every verb..the culture of Effingham is in every way Midwestern. The Upper Midwest and the Lower Midwest, for whatever differences they may have, have more in similarities than differences. And Kentucky is not the Lower Midwest. Unlike most of Southern Missouri, Southern Illinois, Southern Indiana, and some of Southern Ohio, Kentucky has a dialect, strong Southern culture, and its landscape is even more reflective of the South. I just would redraw the dividing line to Highway 50, because Indianapolis has no Southern influence. None. No twang, no nothing. Dayton, Columbus, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Cincinnati are all solidly Midwestern, and if not, they have some Southern influence. Some Southern influence does not = border region.

[Drover]

OK, fine, whatever, there is no border region. The whole culture just magically changes the minute you cross over the bridge from Cincinnati to Covington, or from New Albany to Louisville, or from Evansville to Henderson, or whatever. The Midwest culture just stops dead at the river from the North, and the Southern culture just stops dead at the river from the south, and nary do they blend. Since you say so, it must be true.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Drover

OK, fine, whatever, there is no border region. The whole culture just magically changes the minute you cross over the bridge from Cincinnati to Covington, or from New Albany to Louisville, or from Evansville to Henderson, or whatever. The Midwest culture just stops dead at the river from the North, and the Southern culture just stops dead at the river from the south. Since you say so, it must be true.

Now you are turning your own words on me. I never said there was no border region. I just think the boundaries you set are too far north and too far south. The Kentucky-Tennessee border has nothing Midwestern about it, no culture, accent, agriculture, landscape appearance, history...NOTHING. I think that Highway 50 is a much better approximator of the northern border of the region because it is roughly around the Ohio Valley, contrary to what you said about Interstate 70. The southern boundaries I would consider to be the Ohio River in Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio, and Interstate 64 in Kentucky. In Illinois, I think the border region begins to the south of Interstate 64. My friend from Carbondale once told me that there is a saying they have that goes "If you're not south of I-64, hello Northie!" You think whatever you want to think. I know that north of the Ohio River, Southern culture and dialects in the "Midwestern-South" region you have come up with are far less prominent than south of the Ohio River. Kentucky is a Southern state with Midwestern influences. Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are Midwestern states with Southern influences. You don't have to believe me, you can stick to your own beliefs. I just happen to know for a fact you are wrong about this. I know the difference between a Southern accent and the accent I hear from my friend which sounds more rural and small town-oriented than anything else, and that is not a Southern accent. I'll pull out Southern dialect maps if I have to to prove my point that Effingham isn't Southern.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Drover

OK, fine, whatever, there is no border region. The whole culture just magically changes the minute you cross over the bridge from Cincinnati to Covington, or from New Albany to Louisville, or from Evansville to Henderson, or whatever. The Midwest culture just stops dead at the river from the North, and the Southern culture just stops dead at the river from the south, and nary do they blend. Since you say so, it must be true.

Let me elaborate on that. The only thing I feel like I really disagree on is the Kentucky Tennessee border. The Southern half of Kentucky is solidly Southern. South of Cincinnati/Covington and north of Louisville and Lexington is the border region. This roughly follows the path of Highway 50 across Southern Indiana and Southern Illinois and across Southern Missouri (except slightly further south around St. Louis and Kansas City). Even in West Virginia, the border region begins below Highway 50. The Southern boundary of the border region is roughly the Ohio River and Highway 60. But I guess there's not a gigantic difference between either of our approximations except where the Kentucky and Tennessee borders are concerned. We don't have a gigantic difference in opinion, believe it or not. I just think Effingham is too far north, but maybe I could be wrong...either way, it's more Midwestern than Southern.

[Bobilee]

Maps are very curious things, they are made for many purposes and often without reason. Here is the PBS map on the recent elections. You will see the old designation for "Mid-Atlantic". Virginia is part of the "South", and very amusingly Kentucky and West Virginia are part of the "Mid-West".
Online NewsHour: Regional Analysis: Election Night '96

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Bobilee

Maps are very curious things, they are made for many purposes and often without reason. Here is the PBS map on the recent elections. You will see the old designation for "Mid-Atlantic". Virginia is part of the "South", and very amusingly Kentucky and West Virginia are part of the "Mid-West".
Online NewsHour: Regional Analysis: Election Night '96

Well, by common sense, anyone would agree that West Virginia and Kentucky are not the Midwest. Midwestern influences? Sure, but undoubtedly many more Southern ones. The opposite is true for Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, and Missouri.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by Drover

OK, fine, whatever, there is no border region. The whole culture just magically changes the minute you cross over the bridge from Cincinnati to Covington, or from New Albany to Louisville, or from Evansville to Henderson, or whatever. The Midwest culture just stops dead at the river from the North, and the Southern culture just stops dead at the river from the south, and nary do they blend. Since you say so, it must be true.

Lmao.