40% of US births are now out of wedlock (cost of, to move)

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by TANaples

this August, but so what? My parents were married 50 years and fought every single day, AND made my life miserable as kid. So which is better? A loving stable relationship, with or without marriage, straight or gay, or just longevity? I will go with the former.

What do you mean but so what? You know what? Those of you who are angry and bitter about marriage obviously don't trust your partners enough to commit your ENTIRE lives to them. More power to you.

[NC_MVP]

Originally Posted by TANaples

this August, but so what? My parents were married 50 years and fought every single day, AND made my life miserable as kid. So which is better? A loving stable relationship, with or without marriage, straight or gay, or just longevity? I will go with the former.

CO-SIGN. MY grandparents have been married for almost 55 years. 55 years of constant arguing/fighting/bickering. They were expecting their children (my mother and my uncles) to give them a 50th wedding anniversary party a couple of years ago and they did not. My mother said why would she spend her hard earned money for an anniversary party for a marriage that has not been happy?

[WestCobb]

I have a friend who is 26 and fairly stable and responsible; however, she's now pregnant out of wedlock. Worse, she doesn't even like the guy whose child she's carrying. Worse, I don't think she ever really liked him. She just slept with him for the hell of it, as she has slept with many men before him ... just for kicks really. Worse, she always sort of planned on being a single mother, as her mom was a single mother. I think this is a horrible trend. I think her mindset is sadly all too common. For her and many like her, sex not only comes before marriage, it even comes before a relationship. You sleep with someone, and then you decide whether or not they'd make good longterm company.

I think what she did was terribly self-centered and selfish -- to carelessly bring a child into the world at such a blaring disadvantage. Fathers bring a lot to the table, in terms of financial, emotional and mental support. My wife does a terrific job with our daughter, but our daughter is so much better adjusted than she would be if I weren't around to share the burden of raising her. The pendulum has swung WAY too far toward acceptance when it comes to casual sex. I'm no prude, nor even really a traditionalist when it comes to sex, but there is a reason why virtually every ethical system has sexual self control as a component. It's "for the kids". Kids need dads.

[TomDot]

Originally Posted by WestCobb

I have a friend who is 26 and fairly stable and responsible; however, she's now pregnant out of wedlock. Worse, she doesn't even like the guy whose child she's carrying. Worse, I don't think she ever really liked him. She just slept with him for the hell of it, as she has slept with many men before him ... just for kicks really. Worse, she always sort of planned on being a single mother, as her mom was a single mother. I think this is a horrible trend. I think her mindset is sadly all too common. For her and many like her, sex not only comes before marriage, it even comes before a relationship. You sleep with someone, and then you decide whether or not they'd make good longterm company.

I think what she did was terribly self-centered and selfish -- to carelessly bring a child into the world at such a blaring disadvantage. Fathers bring a lot to the table, in terms of financial, emotional and mental support. My wife does a terrific job with our daughter, but our daughter is so much better adjusted than she would be if I weren't around to share the burden of raising her. The pendulum has swung WAY too far toward acceptance when it comes to casual sex. I'm no prude, nor even really a traditionalist when it comes to sex, but there is a reason why virtually every ethical system has sexual self control as a component. It's "for the kids". Kids need dads.

To the liberal mindset, traditional roles and values are something to move away from.

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by missymomof3

What do you mean but so what? You know what? Those of you who are angry and bitter about marriage obviously don't trust your partners enough to commit your ENTIRE lives to them. More power to you.

My husband and I are 60 years old. Right now, the odds are greater that one of us will die first rather than get divorced.

[WestCobb]

Originally Posted by TomDot

To the liberal mindset, traditional roles and values are something to move away from.

The funny thing is I'm a liberal by almost every estimation. I think life is a lot more flexible than most conservatives assume and assert. I also am not a fan of telling others that they have to live by my values. Who's to say my values are right? Still, after having lived a bit, and observing kids with fathers and kids without, I have grown increasingly disgusted with the "dads are optional" meme that's out there. No, dads aren't optional. Dads who stick around and help carry the responsibility of children are the reason we've acheived so much as a species. Throwing this out on a whim is like cutting off one's left hand for the hell of it. Sure, you can get by with just the right one .. but WHY would you? A second hand is a gift and blessing of Nature. Don't spit on it.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by TomDot

To the liberal mindset, traditional roles and values are something to move away from.

That's not necessarily a "liberal" thing. It has more to do with being irresponsible.

[Huckleberry3911948]

this would explain the resulting behavior i see on the streets.

[ckhthankgod]

What is unfortunate and what people overlook is the history and psychology involved in this. Meaning, there are families and people that had have situations like this historically due to things that occurred in history, with economic issues, people putting sex and other pleasures before other thngs and so on.

[nJohn]

Keep the legs closed and if you really have to, wrap the darn tool. Sometimes people don't have self constraint. That's all I have to say.