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Old 04-25-2009, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,005 posts, read 69,444,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Yeah, Oklahoma is the SOUTH. No doubt about it. Also, so are southern areas of Kansas and Missouri.
Southern Missouri, yes. Southern Kansas, heck no. SE Oklahoma, yes, feels quite Southern, the rest of the Oklahoma, no, not IMO. Western Oklahoma feels solidly Western, as does SW OK. North Central OK feels Midwestern/Great Plains, Southern OK feels Southern.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:29 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,011,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
Southern Missouri, yes. Southern Kansas, heck no. SE Oklahoma, yes, feels quite Southern, the rest of the Oklahoma, no, not IMO. Western Oklahoma feels solidly Western, as does SW OK. North Central OK feels Midwestern/Great Plains, Southern OK feels Southern.
I don't understand how Southern MO feels Southern, but NE OK doesnt. They're not far from each other. And NE OK borders Arkansas. It doesn't just go from Southern to Midwestern once you cross the border into OK
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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No part of West Virginia is the mid-west.
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,911,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I don't understand how Southern MO feels Southern, but NE OK doesnt. They're not far from each other. And NE OK borders Arkansas. It doesn't just go from Southern to Midwestern once you cross the border into OK
Very true. My dad's family originated in Northeastern Oklahoma and Southwestern Missouri.They were not Southerners, nor did they really speak with anything other than a slight twang. NE OK, SE KS, SW MO, and NW AR are really not all that different from one another. They are cultural crossroads between the Midwest, Great Plains, Ozarks, and the Upper South.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:56 PM
 
925 posts, read 2,292,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, Colorado is a western state. The whole state. For one thing, western Colorado is closer to Denver than the nearest big cities in the midwest, Omaha and Kansas City.

I disagree with the northern midwest category. Not that it doesn't exist, but northern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and all of Michigan are probably their own cateagory eintirely. They are not particularly Nordic or Canadian, IMO. Michigan may be a little Canadian, but certainly not the other three, which are separated from Canada by a great lake (Ohio) and other states (Ind. and Ill.) Michigan has a large Dutch influence. Also disagree that the western Dakotas and western Nebraska are NOT the midwest, espeically as you include western Colorado in the midwest.

Also, many people in Kansas have drawly accents.

W. Virginia is mid-Atlantic. All of it. You can't take out a few counties.
I agree with your assessment that many Kansans speak with what sounds like a near southern accent drawl.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,414 posts, read 7,715,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
Its not just the people that made NE OK feel Midwestern, it was the scenery, the weather, etc. Its not far from Joplin, which also feels solidly Midwestern to me. Sure there is a slight twang in some locals, but you also hear that in Southern IL and Southern IN, which are also solidly Midwestern. Youre confusing Southern touches with pure Southern influence, big difference! I can visit southern IL and feel the Southern touches, but its NOT Southern Georgia!

I also stated that NE OK feels Midwestern, but the rest of the state doesnt. Did you miss that?
No I didn't miss that. And I have met people from Southern Indiana that supposedly had an accent. In my experience, those individuals did not have anywhere near the twang that most the Okies that I know possess.

And I don't think I'm confusing anything (Southern touches vs. Southern influence); I'm just speaking from my life experience, which I have corroborated with folks in several different parts of the country. I would assert (as I mentioned in my first response to you) that OK is a watered-down version of the Deep South. IMO that does not negate that Oklahoma is Southern....it just is not the Deep South. Again, see the Census' understanding of Oklahoma's culture and geography as a subregion of the South known as the West South Central.

I think a more reasonable inquiry would be to investigate/debate the Southern vs. Southwestern influences in Oklahoma and not the so-called Midwestern influence which appears to be quite miniscule other than topography.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:33 PM
 
Location: IN
20,856 posts, read 35,987,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Fanatic View Post
I agree with your assessment that many Kansans speak with what sounds like a near southern accent drawl.
Yes, most Kansas people have a twangy accent IMO. It is definitely not a netural accent compared to most of Nebraska and Iowa.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK, USA
31 posts, read 137,828 times
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Default OK is definitely midwestern

Yes we have some of those twangy accents from time to time, but those are generally in small towns, nothing like Tulsa or OKC. I have lived here my entire life and lots of people will say that we're in the midwest. Even the U.S. Census Bureau can't even make up its mind when it comes to mapping the regions. Just type in "U.S. Bureau Census Regions" in the search bar and they'll have OK and AR in south on one page, but then those states will be in the midwest on another page. And just because someone mentioned that there are some country stars from here, big deal, that doesn't really help. Shania Twain's from Canada, but does that make Canada part of the south? Gretchen Wilson is from Illinois and so is Allison Krauss...and you get my point. And geographically, OK should be in the midwest; it's west of the Mississippi River, happens to be in plains, and it is often called "the heartland" (isn't that the midwest's nickname?).
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:15 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer_22 View Post
Yes we have some of those twangy accents from time to time, but those are generally in small towns, nothing like Tulsa or OKC. I have lived here my entire life and lots of people will say that we're in the midwest. Even the U.S. Census Bureau can't even make up its mind when it comes to mapping the regions. Just type in "U.S. Bureau Census Regions" in the search bar and they'll have OK and AR in south on one page, but then those states will be in the midwest on another page. And just because someone mentioned that there are some country stars from here, big deal, that doesn't really help. Shania Twain's from Canada, but does that make Canada part of the south? Gretchen Wilson is from Illinois and so is Allison Krauss...and you get my point. And geographically, OK should be in the midwest; it's west of the Mississippi River, happens to be in plains, and it is often called "the heartland" (isn't that the midwest's nickname?).
Here is the Census' official regional delineations (Delaware/Maryland are generally the states that are argued about most of the time because of their inclusion with the South):



If you were going off of strict geography then I think you have somewhat of a point as some of Oklahoma is clearly part of the Great Plains. The best geographical designation for Oklahoma is South-Central. The problem is that regions/states are made up of culture as well. So if you combine culture AND geography then the Census does a pretty darn good job of getting it right (again, with the exception of Delware/Maryland). In fact, I think it is Oklahoma's similarities culturally with Texas and Arkansas especially (to a lesser exent Louisiana = such a strange state culturally anyway...in a good way!) for which the Census associates/includes OK in the South at large.

And if there are Okies claiming the Midwest that would be news to me. Perhaps they weren't taught Oklahoma's history? I have found one person that was from OK that self-identified himself as living in the Midwest (but he was clearly using it in the geographic sense) but one thing I learned about him is that his family was originally from the North or true Midwest (Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas.) It appeared that it made him more likely to self-identify with the Midwest because that's where his family was originally from....and I wasn't even sure if this individual was raised in OK, although he lived there when I talked to him.

Like myself, the majority of Oklahoma families stretching back to settlement days were pretty much reject Southerners looking for a fresh start, most notably from Texas, Mississippi, and Arkansas. (All my family [both sides from my mom/dad] is from the Carolinas, Arkansas, Georgia, and Mississippi, just as an aside.) Whatever the case, I have yet to a meet a born&bred Okie claim anything Midwestern. Just sounds wierd to me. By the same token, many Okies will simply say they are Oklahoman and not really identify with any broader region. However, this in no way implies that few (certainly not many) would self-identify with the Midwest.

Also, your discussion of country stars is somewhat interesting to me. The fact that Oklahoma has such a ridiculously high proportion of country music stars given its small population as a state does indicate a unique blend of Southern/Southwestern culture. In fact, I don't think there are any Deep South states that could boast the great number of country music stars as Oklahoma. Vince Gill, Garth, Reba, Toby Keith, Carrie Underwood, Blake Shelton, Ronnie Dunn, Roger Miller, Kelly Coffey, Joe Don Rooney, Keith Anderson, Bryan White, Roy Clark, Red Dirt stars Cross Canadian Ragweed, etc.....I could list many more but I would be here all day. The star of western-swing, Bob Wills, made it big in your own hometown of Tulsa. (And let's not forget the original outlaw, Merle Haggard's folks come from the Muskogee area.)

Again, a much better inquiry is if Oklahoma (and Texas) should be included in the South or Southwest, or is it just straight-up more Western than anything else? The Midwest, however, it is not. Anyway, good dialogue.

Cheers, my fellow Okie.

Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 09-13-2010 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,576,318 times
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If Oklahoma is in the Midwest then Minnesota is not. The two states are nothing alike. Oklahoma is far more similar to Texas and Arkansas, or even Mississippi or Louisiana than it is to North Dakota, Wisconsin, Minnesota or other truly Midwestern states. Claim Midwest if you will, but leave the Upper Midwest out of your region -- call us "South Canada" or something like that.

Really, Oklahoma is nothing like the Midwest. It is 100% southern. Just because OK has a city called "Midwest City" doesn't mean it's in the Midwest. I live in Southern Minnesota: does that mean I drink sweet tea and listen to bluegrass?
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