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WASPs don't have to be religious or conservative. Many are Unitarian, which is a very liberal, almost agnostic religion. Episcopalians & Presbyterians are also pretty liberal. And i'm not sure if being Catholic would make someone not a WASP. The Catholic church I go to is very WASPy. I dont think there is a term that is the Catholic equivalent to WASP, so a lot of times they get called WASPs despite being Catholic.
Presbyterians are not by and large liberal. They are very close in doctrine to Baptist and are distinguished from them mainly by their predestinational beliefs. Dr. D. James Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, who is one of the best known and respected pastors in America, wrote and started the Evangelism Explosion program, which is very evangelical (which most equate with conservative Christianity) and widely used by evangelical churches from the Baptists to evangelical Lutherans. Dr. Lloyd Oglivie former pastor of the famous Hollywood Presbyterian Church and Chaplin to the Senate of the United States could hardly be considered liberal. He was a dear friend of my former pastor at the First Baptist Church of Van Nuys and they traded pulpits all the time and we had joint mission efforts as well. I have attended Presbyterian and Lutheran (some are liberal but many many are not) churches when a good Baptist one was not available and felt almost as many “amens” within my heart at what the pastor was saying as at my own church.
I am what I would consider a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant as my lineage is mostly English with surnames of Anglo-Saxon heritage with just a tiny bit of Norman, the Anglo-Saxon's opposition, thrown in for good measure. I am probably as British in ancestry as most of the people in Brittain today, but my family came to America in the early 1700's and that ancestor was a well known Presbyterian minister. Yep, I'm a WASP.
Presbyterians are not by and large liberal. They are very close in doctrine to Baptist and are distinguished from them mainly by their predestinational beliefs. Dr. D. James Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, who is one of the best known and respected pastors in America, wrote and started the Evangelism Explosion program, which is very evangelical (which most equate with conservative Christianity) and widely used by evangelical churches from the Baptists to evangelical Lutherans. Dr. Lloyd Oglivie former pastor of the famous Hollywood Presbyterian Church and Chaplin to the Senate of the United States could hardly be considered liberal. He was a dear friend of my former pastor at the First Baptist Church of Van Nuys and they traded pulpits all the time and we had joint mission efforts as well. I have attended Presbyterian and Lutheran (some are liberal but many many are not) churches when a good Baptist one was not available and felt almost as many “amens” within my heart at what the pastor was saying as at my own church.
I am what I would consider a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant as my lineage is mostly English with surnames of Anglo-Saxon heritage with just a tiny bit of Norman, the Anglo-Saxon's opposition, thrown in for good measure. I am probably as British in ancestry as most of the people in Brittain today, but my family came to America in the early 1700's and that ancestor was a well known Presbyterian minister. Yep, I'm a WASP.
The largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S. - The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is, by most standards, liberal. By that I mean there are many open and affirming congregations (i.e. congregations that let gay people be gay), there is an ongoing struggle over whether to ordain openly gay people, women are ordained as a matter of common practice and the social gospel is still alive and well. At least one of the Presbyterians you mention (Kennedy) is of the Presbyterian Church in America which is very conservative. But that denomination is not considered mainline and is not what most people think of when they say or hear "Presbyterian."
If you take into account all the smaller presbyterian-type denominations, then the liberalness of that church label gets watered down some. But the PCUSA is by far the largest of the presbyterian denominations.
Dude, on the surface what you say may appear to be true. When it came to a vote about ordination of gays, 43% of that branch of the denomination voted no on such ordinations. Like the Episcopal Church the Presbyterian's USA are in the midst of great in-house dissension between the conservatives and the liberals. The more conservative USA camp voted amongst themselves, much as conservative Episcopalians, not to leave the Presbyterian USA fold as yet. They do not want to hand it over to the liberals. When they convene for the next PCUSA convention in 2010 that may change.
Both the Episcopalian and Presbyterian stories have been superbly covered by Christianity Today Magazine. It will be interesting to see what happens in both churches - who I doubt are as WASPy today as in years past.
officially it seems to be English Americans, Germans and Dutch Amer too?
scots-irish southerners would perhaps by most be considered WASPS however I think they'd be generally considered Celts though it's debatable what %age of White Englishman are Anglo-Saxon
also WASP to me signifies being well-off etc
Boston Brahmins are the quintessential WASPS
the loosest definition may be NW Euro American Protestants
or even Non-Hispanic Euro Americans (incl Catholics)
I believe this is what Anglo in Socal refers to
No, "anglo-saxon" refers only to people of english ancestry. Not Welsh, Scots, Irish, German, or any other.
Germans are Teutons, French are Galls, Irish and Scots are Celts, etc.
Additionally, to qualify as a WASP, you must be of protestant background, not Catholic. Most WASPS, to my knowledge, are Episcopalians (often in name only).
Basically, to qualify as "anglo-saxon", your name should be something like Jefferson, Johnson, Jackson, Washington... and you should be white.
So you see, there are not too many actual WASPS left in the US, although most of our founding fathers were WASPS.
Because the power structure in the US was initially comprised of such people, because they were the richest and owned the most slaves, there are now many many people of color who bear their names.
But not so many WASPS, anymore. They don't tend to be very prolific breeders.
Umm, most Presbyterians are actually of Scots-Irish ancestry, not English. If your family are multigenerational Presbyterians, you likely have a significant amount of non English ancestry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceeglass
Presbyterians are not by and large liberal. They are very close in doctrine to Baptist and are distinguished from them mainly by their predestinational beliefs. Dr. D. James Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, who is one of the best known and respected pastors in America, wrote and started the Evangelism Explosion program, which is very evangelical (which most equate with conservative Christianity) and widely used by evangelical churches from the Baptists to evangelical Lutherans. Dr. Lloyd Oglivie former pastor of the famous Hollywood Presbyterian Church and Chaplin to the Senate of the United States could hardly be considered liberal. He was a dear friend of my former pastor at the First Baptist Church of Van Nuys and they traded pulpits all the time and we had joint mission efforts as well. I have attended Presbyterian and Lutheran (some are liberal but many many are not) churches when a good Baptist one was not available and felt almost as many “amens” within my heart at what the pastor was saying as at my own church.
I am what I would consider a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant as my lineage is mostly English with surnames of Anglo-Saxon heritage with just a tiny bit of Norman, the Anglo-Saxon's opposition, thrown in for good measure. I am probably as British in ancestry as most of the people in Brittain today, but my family came to America in the early 1700's and that ancestor was a well known Presbyterian minister. Yep, I'm a WASP.
According to wikipedia, basically a WASP is usually:
- an American of British descent (so it doesn't have to be necessarily of English descent but also Scottish, Scots-Irish and Welsh descent),
- a Protestant
- a wealthy person (mostly due to his ancestors)
- a person who can traced his ancestors during colonial times.
But I think now the term is more general and includes also those who aren't Anglo-Saxon (eg Dutch, German) but who can also traced their ancestry to colonial time.
Umm, most Presbyterians are actually of Scots-Irish ancestry, not English. If your family are multigenerational Presbyterians, you likely have a significant amount of non English ancestry.
Actually, many American Presbyterians are Korean immigrants. Presbyterianism is THE largest Christian faith in South Korea.
On the topic of WASP or WASPiness, its use in terms of class in America differ from just a true reading of the word.
I'd say it referes to wealthy, old-money protestant whites, from British or Dutch ancestry. In the Midwest, people of German or Scandinavian background are also part of the WASP culture.
In my experience the term WASP is most popular in New England and is not used tremendously in the South or West. It enjoys some usage in the Midwest.
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