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Very good cultural map! But parts of Maryland and West Virginia simply reveal no southern culture (the western Portion of Maryland included, and the areas of WV around that)
The funny thing is that area of WV, Jefferson and Berkeley Counties were considered "Virginia Irredenta" by historians, the first families of Virginia had homes here, the Lees, Washingtons and Fairfaxes, support for the Confederacy was predominant. Perhaps things have changed with the DC commuters.
This was my own map of the South. The base map is the US Census Ancestry map, the red line is the Telsur Project map of Southern Dialect. Within the purple line are the states where Evangelical Christian churches are predominant, and the dark green line are the areas that voted to secede from the United States in 1860-61.
nope thats not really true at all. ive been to the sikeston area, certianly southern culturally but not deep south by any means. and south of St louis just doesnt cut it, youve got to go further down for cheese grits and sweet tea
The funny thing with Sweet Tea is visiting my family in the St. Louis area from Atlanta is how much more I am starting to see sweet tea advertised and promoted in places around St. Louis. The bootheel region does have some connections to the deep South in terms of geographically and geologically being the northenmost extension of the coastal plain with the Mississippi Embayment. Another useful map is one showing largest religious denomination by county. I haven't seen a map showing percentage of evangelicals by county yet, since that is now among the most common identifier of Southern culture to everyone else. *of course Cajuns being an exception*
What would the overarching Southern culture aspects and what could be benchmarks for different subsets?
The funny thing is that area of WV, Jefferson and Berkeley Counties were considered "Virginia Irredenta" by historians, the first families of Virginia had homes here, the Lees, Washingtons and Fairfaxes, support for the Confederacy was predominant. Perhaps things have changed with the DC commuters.
This was my own map of the South. The base map is the US Census Ancestry map, the red line is the Telsur Project map of Southern Dialect. Within the purple line are the states where Evangelical Christian churches are predominant, and the dark green line are the areas that voted to secede from the United States in 1860-61.
not bad, only part of it i disagree on is in missouri, WV and VA, all of which i would move the line down, but quite close id say to my own perception.
and im not going by support for the confederacy, im going by the area's current culture
The funny thing with Sweet Tea is visiting my family in the St. Louis area from Atlanta is how much more I am starting to see sweet tea advertised and promoted in places around St. Louis. The bootheel region does have some connections to the deep South in terms of geographically and geologically being the northenmost extension of the coastal plain with the Mississippi Embayment. Another useful map is one showing largest religious denomination by county. I haven't seen a map showing percentage of evangelicals by county yet, since that is now among the most common identifier of Southern culture to everyone else. *of course Cajuns being an exception*
What would the overarching Southern culture aspects and what could be benchmarks for different subsets?
perhaps sweet tea was a poor example given that it has become more mainstream american lately.
and the bootheel does not really have ties to the deep south, not any more than the jackson purchase of kentucky, northwest TN, and northeast arkansas do. they share some cultural simmilarites, but i still wouldnt classify them as deep south as they fail to be similar to lower parts of the delta and are more like the upper south.
perhaps sweet tea was a poor example given that it has become more mainstream american lately.
and the bootheel does not really have ties to the deep south, not any more than the jackson purchase of kentucky, northwest TN, and northeast arkansas do. they share some cultural simmilarites, but i still wouldnt classify them as deep south as they fail to be similar to lower parts of the delta and are more like the upper south.
I agree, bootheel MO is definitely upper south in culture. At least in my limited experience. It seemed very similar to where I grew up in western KY.
I agree, bootheel MO is definitely upper south in culture. At least in my limited experience. It seemed very similar to where I grew up in western KY.
well if you grew up in mayfield or murray, then i would believe that. not sure about hopkinsville, little bit different when getting that direction. i feel like the jackson purchase, northwest TN, bootheel northeast arkansa, and far souther IL (metropilis, and the tows right on the river but not really too much up from there) are part of mississippi river embayment subregion of the upper south.
the rest of western ky is not though, that i classify with middle TN and northern alabama
well if you grew up in mayfield or murray, then i would believe that. not sure about hopkinsville, little bit different when getting that direction. i feel like the jackson purchase, northwest TN, bootheel northeast arkansa, and far souther IL (metropilis, and the tows right on the river but not really too much up from there) are part of mississippi river embayment subregion of the upper south.
the rest of western ky is not though, that i classify with middle TN and northern alabama
No, not that far west. Bowling Green. You are right. The Jackson Purchase is essentially identical to NW TN, SE MO, far south IL... Obviously, the river town culture permeates those areas. I was thinking in broader terms, you could break up the US into countless areas if you want. You are right, Bowling Green fits better in the upper south area with middle TN and north AL. I live in Huntsville, AL now and feel like the culture is VERY similar to BG, KY.
not bad, only part of it i disagree on is in missouri, WV and VA, all of which i would move the line down, but quite close id say to my own perception.
and im not going by support for the confederacy, im going by the area's current culture
One of the reasons I put the map together was to avoid personal interpretations. The Census Bureau is the greatest gatherer of information in the US. The Telsur Project is the premier study of dialect in the US, which is available here Phonological Atlas of North America
I would consider personal identity, dialect and religion key elements to any regional definition. And the Confederacy cannot be lightly dismissed, even after 150 years. The overlay of these 4 maps give a very good idea just where the south begins. And I'm very curious just how and why Appalachia is distinguished from the Upper South. What are your sources?
No, not that far west. Bowling Green. You are right. The Jackson Purchase is essentially identical to NW TN, SE MO, far south IL... Obviously, the river town culture permeates those areas. I was thinking in broader terms, you could break up the US into countless areas if you want. You are right, Bowling Green fits better in the upper south area with middle TN and north AL. I live in Huntsville, AL now and feel like the culture is VERY similar to BG, KY.
yes you certainly can break it up into many subregions. id like to do that for the upper south, perhaps at some point i will.
the upper south is a subregion of the south, then there are subregions of the upper south, so you can certainly break it up quite a bit, although a wouldnt go any further than that.
but im glad to see someone living in huntsville who has formerly lived in bowling green confirm my theories.
One of the reasons I put the map together was to avoid personal interpretations. The Census Bureau is the greatest gatherer of information in the US. The Telsur Project is the premier study of dialect in the US, which is available here Phonological Atlas of North America
I would consider personal identity, dialect and religion key elements to any regional definition. And the Confederacy cannot be lightly dismissed, even after 150 years. The overlay of these 4 maps give a very good idea just where the south begins. And I'm very curious just how and why Appalachia is distinguished from the Upper South. What are your sources?
just to be clear, my comment was addressing the red line you drew, not any of the others.
about that dialect map, i wouldnt read to much into the precise boundaries it gives. they take samples, and have to estimate where the lines fit in between them. i happen to know for a fact that there are areas of western kentucky theyve left off that should be on, same goes for the fact that the dialect doesnt go that far up in missouri. you can see where there samples are, and how theyve estimated a line in between.
i also consider personal identity, dialect and religion. i can figure out those things without looking at the confederacy.
really when speaking in broad terms appalachia is part of the upper south, but it is certainly diferent from the area is usually refer to as the upper south. we all know that bowling green KY is different from Harlan KY. southern appalachia is simply culturally different, economically dialect-wise, beahviorally, and just overall way of life different.
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