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Old 07-17-2009, 04:07 PM
 
56,633 posts, read 80,930,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
"but let's not act like there hasn't been any help, grace, mercy and so forth that has allowed us to get to where we are today."

Well, if you mean help, grace, mercy and so forth from above, I am sure there hasn't been any. It is the placebo effect. Once you understand that mechanism, you might as well become an atheist and you will be just as successful and happy, if not more so
It just hurts me when I see grown-up people praying to some lord for this and that... I am from a very Catholic region and I have seen it before. People keep praying because they have grown up thinking they depend on some divine intervention and good-will. If they have a good life, they tell themselves that god likes and helps them. If their lives are a mess, they think god does not like them and they have done something wrong.
Then, that is where one some question their faith. I think that if we rely on the help, grace and mercy of humans, then we will be waiting for a long time, because the human condition is fickle, like I stated before. People still have to put in work, because things just don't magically happen.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:11 PM
 
56,633 posts, read 80,930,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Unfortunately, popular culture and the ghetto mentality go a long way to prevent that.
Again, I think we give that too much power and I believe personally that it is exaggerated. I'm not saying that such things aren't real, but there are many people that know how to rightly divide things and make it out of tough situations all the time. We just don't see these examples enough. So, we make these seem to be all encompassing for said communities. It reminds me of a saying that states something to the effect of the fact that it's not that Black people haven't accomplished things before, but it's the lack of recognition for these things that has an effect.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:20 PM
 
56,633 posts, read 80,930,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
You should write a letter to Black Enterprise. I'd think you'd get a blurb in the magazine.
I seriously think you should get out of that hell hole known as Detroit, because honestly, that's the worst place for any African American or any American at that. With one of the worst economies, poverty rates, and high crime rates, you got to go.

You should go to the North east. NJ and MD are probably the best places for blacks IMO.

And instead of worrying and questioning your blackness, live life like your the color of water and be proud of your background and just be yourself and make your own strides. People will be impressed black or white... Some of the most successful African Americans are set far from the negative stereotype of "ghetto black sista/brotha"
This is what holds a lot African Americans back. The stereotype to a lot feel like it's a natural style of living; when it's not, there is no style or mannerism to set yourself with because of the color of your skin.. it's a shame. I see it in my school, about 30% of my school is black and a lot of them feel the need to act ghetto and beat up someone for the tiniest reason for attention and reputation, when at the same time, they're in Bergen County! These kids should be thankful they're not in Irvington or Camden, but yet they act like they are because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

The successful black kids at the school are some of the smartest kids in school and most athletic in the school, you just know the other low class students are going to be the one's working for them in the future... These are the kids who are friends with everybody of all different races and these are the kids that use English the way its meant to be used; They know they're black and they're proud of it, but why portray the trashy side of it all and label it "black"? Why is it when Black people do well in life their own race says they're trying to be white?

I know i'm white, but i never say it. I'm proud to be Italian American. I don't give a crap about the race. People ask me why do i hang out with the black people or date a black girl, when they know perfectly well i hang out with all sorts of races and nationalities. People just focus on the one thing all the time and get so worked up about it they don't notice the rest of the spectrum. It's like i'm one of the very few people who live life like it's America. People still don't get why this country is here, and it's pathetic and disheartening.

More blacks need to open their eyes and live more like an individual. If this was the case, blacks would have so much more of a better rap.
I understand and agree with a lot of your post. I just want to add one more thing and something that people don't realize actually oddurs. Where I grew up, you actually would get White kids that would question your "Blackness" if you didn't act a certain way as well. This happened at the school I went too at times and the schools I went to were 92-95% White. So, I think it's more than just a Black issue, because a lot of what has happened in history and even today occurred due to stereotypes that have been portrayed out of control or exaggerated.

Also, I will say that the acting white thing occurred less in my life versus Black people giving me love for getting an education, joining and serving time in the military or buying my home. So, I think that gets exaggerated more than people realize as well. I think some people can get too sensistive and take it personal when people do that, because in most cases with me, it was done in more of a joking manner.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,399 posts, read 19,315,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Also, it is a smaller Black community. Black people in England only make up 3% of the national population.

There is some awareness there but it isn't as large due to the size of that community's population in relation to the nation as a whole.
Sure, but then again, unlike in the States in Britain almost all of them live in just a handful of cities. In London for instance they make up 11% of the population, which is almost the national average in the US. So thanks to the size of London, that corresponds to about 800.000 black people in London alone.
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:43 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,399 posts, read 19,315,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Then, that is where one some question their faith. I think that if we rely on the help, grace and mercy of humans, then we will be waiting for a long time, because the human condition is fickle, like I stated before. People still have to put in work, because things just don't magically happen.
That's why being an atheist can be depressing It forces you to confront the nothingness of life, which can be hard to bear. And it is even harder to make something positive out of it.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:54 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,963,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I understand and agree with a lot of your post. I just want to add one more thing and something that people don't realize actually oddurs. Where I grew up, you actually would get White kids that would question your "Blackness" if you didn't act a certain way as well. This happened at the school I went too at times and the schools I went to were 92-95% White. So, I think it's more than just a Black issue, because a lot of what has happened in history and even today occurred due to stereotypes that have been portrayed out of control or exaggerated.

Also, I will say that the acting white thing occurred less in my life versus Black people giving me love for getting an education, joining and serving time in the military or buying my home. So, I think that gets exaggerated more than people realize as well. I think some people can get too sensistive and take it personal when people do that, because in most cases with me, it was done in more of a joking manner.
Oh, of course white people are the runner ups when it comes to questioning ones blackness. Well at least where I live.
I'm still in High school (and the school is extremely diverse), so I'm pretty adapted and know all about the new generations view.
Your probably right on point about other black people giving you a sense of accomplishment though. I notice when black people do really well, it's the other black people that root and show pride in what they're race did; not too many races do that as often. African Americans are the best race when it comes to being more passionate about one another as a whole.

But i'm glad you agree with me
And thanks for more important information to add on to my message.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:36 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 13 days ago)
 
48,170 posts, read 45,495,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
Oh, of course white people are the runner ups when it comes to questioning ones blackness. Well at least where I live.
I'm still in High school (and the school is extremely diverse), so I'm pretty adapted and know all about the new generations view.
Your probably right on point about other black people giving you a sense of accomplishment though. I notice when black people do really well, it's the other black people that root and show pride in what they're race did; not too many races do that as often. African Americans are the best race when it comes to being more passionate about one another as a whole.

But i'm glad you agree with me
And thanks for more important information to add on to my message.
Interesting you bring this up. I think part of the reason many blacks are likely to show the pride you speak of is because of the awareness of history.
I know what it is like to have my "blackness" questioned. I think part of the reason some whites might question ones blackness might have to do with expectation. Some people expect me to behave like what is found on MTV or the rap videos. My sociology professor showed a document about hip-hop to the entire class. One female admitted that listening to rap was her way of experiencing another culture(the black culture specifically). Many of these songs had to do with glorifying things like drive-by shootings. Her reasoning was because she grew up in an area that was middle-upper class, very few, if any, minorities living there. I shook my head because I thought "I am black and I don't live up to those stereotypes that one would expect from the rap songs, and that stereotype is all she is familiar with. If she was actually in a driveby shooting, I don't think she would want that kind of music." I think one's blackness being questioned is a bit like the documentary I watched. What is expected and what is found are many times polar opposites. Some people view this with mistrust.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:50 AM
 
259 posts, read 324,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
Many of us are conditioned to achieve the American Dream: Education, comfortable living, nice home & car and a nuclear family. We educate ourselves, matriculate from the finest institutions, network, get that "dream job" and acquire material things. We've jumped through the brass ring, so we should be satisfied, right? Haven't we "made it"?...After all is said and done, many people find that they are miserable and unfulfilled; not ungrateful, but unsatisfied. The area where many of us are most unhappy is the workplace. The "glass ceiling" and "white privilege" realities are not something we learn about in college. I'm still amazed at the injustices and biases that exist on the development and promotion track in corporate America for African Americans. Despite our credentials, achievements and performance, we're often evaluated and regarded "differently". It's as if we're subjected to a different set of rules/employee conduct. Our wages are lower and scrutiny higher. If a new hire is African American, he/she is automatically assigned to us for mentorship, despite differences in career paths and interests, as if it's impossible for a white person to develop an Af. Am. We're not typically invited "on the boat", to the homes of or to go on vacation w/ our superiors to get that "extra edge". We're not generally selected to be "groomed" to advance in the corporation as readily as whites. Further, although our "counterparts" are free to socialize and converse w/ each other as well as w/us, we're afraid to speak to each other or make eye contact, let alone have a lengthy conversation, for fear of retribution or being accused of alienating ourselves from others, or being too exclusive. Sometimes, it seems the only way to find true success as an Af. Am. is to "sell out", compromise our ethics, or sacrifice our dignity. I have too much faith in God, self respect and confidence in my skills and abilities to do any of those things. Meritorious and ethical advancement is the only option for me. What do you think? Do share.
Most African Americans would be better served if they rejected this culture of consumerism and focused on the development of their own culture instead of simply adopting the mass culture that is geared towards consumerism and feeding the machine.

People need to define success in ways that are not the norm, and let go of the materialistic depression and all of its trappings.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:28 AM
 
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 6,122,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesBloodAxe View Post
Most African Americans would be better served if they rejected this culture of consumerism and focused on the development of their own culture instead of simply adopting the mass culture that is geared towards consumerism and feeding the machine.

People need to define success in ways that are not the norm, and let go of the materialistic depression and all of its trappings.
I think for many low-income Americans, not just African-Americans, there is no escape from the culture of consumerism. Very often when you are raised in a situation where you have very little, you have dreams of one day making money and acquiring the things that come along with that (nice house, designer clothes, luxury vehicle). Regardless of how unimportant material items ACTUALLY are in terms of personal happiness and measures of success, in a capitalistic society, material items will always take center stage.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:33 AM
 
259 posts, read 324,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
I think for many low-income Americans, not just African-Americans, there is no escape from the culture of consumerism. Very often when you are raised in a situation where you have very little, you have dreams of one day making money and acquiring the things that come along with that (nice house, designer clothes, luxury vehicle). Regardless of how unimportant material items ACTUALLY are in terms of personal happiness and measures of success, in a capitalistic society, material items will always take center stage.


"Regardless of how unimportant material items ACTUALLY are in terms of personal happiness and measures of success, in a capitalistic society, material items will always take center stage."

Hence the need to let go of this counter productive meme and build a unique culture that discards this foolishness.
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