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Old 07-27-2009, 10:44 AM
 
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 6,133,971 times
Reputation: 1815

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesBloodAxe View Post
"Regardless of how unimportant material items ACTUALLY are in terms of personal happiness and measures of success, in a capitalistic society, material items will always take center stage."

Hence the need to let go of this counter productive meme and build a unique culture that discards this foolishness.
I am saying that will never happen. We will never lose our status symbols in the United States. It is up to the family unit to establish values on how important material things are. With a society like the United States, there will also be a very high percentage of family for whom having the latest iPhone or the latest model Mercedes will be the most important measure of success.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:51 AM
 
259 posts, read 325,630 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
I am saying that will never happen. We will never lose our status symbols in the United States. It is up to the family unit to establish values on how important material things are. With a society like the United States, there will also be a very high percentage of family for whom having the latest iPhone or the latest model Mercedes will be the most important measure of success.

And I believe the more African Americans reject rampant materialism and use their resources to rebuild themselves and their culture the better off they and America will be.

Following will only get one so far.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:25 PM
 
56,900 posts, read 81,260,160 times
Reputation: 12583
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesBloodAxe View Post
Most African Americans would be better served if they rejected this culture of consumerism and focused on the development of their own culture instead of simply adopting the mass culture that is geared towards consumerism and feeding the machine.

People need to define success in ways that are not the norm, and let go of the materialistic depression and all of its trappings.
I actually get what you are saying and agree with much of it. I think the downfall at times has actually been being a part of the "mainstream" in this country. I've even have heard people question "integration" partially due to this and actually long for some of the communal things that occurred for Black people during segregation.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:27 PM
 
56,900 posts, read 81,260,160 times
Reputation: 12583
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesBloodAxe View Post
And I believe the more African Americans reject rampant materialism and use their resources to rebuild themselves and their culture the better off they and America will be.

Following will only get one so far.
I will say that the following is an American thing, not just a Black thing. I think more and more people are being "marketed to" and they can't see the "okie doke", in a sense. It's like America has become a nation of zombies, really in a lot of ways and no one is immune from it.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:12 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,191,056 times
Reputation: 10910
I think there are two main elements. One is the set of things the OP mentioned. The other is that women, male gays and other POC besides Af Ams are being "selected" for fast tracking and this reduces opportunities for Af Ams. I know this to be true, I used to be privy to the "quota" lists in previous roles I've had. I say, throw away all quota lists and let the creme rise to the top. This, IMO, would actually benefit Af Ams.

Last edited by BayAreaHillbilly; 07-28-2009 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 6,133,971 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesBloodAxe View Post
And I believe the more African Americans reject rampant materialism and use their resources to rebuild themselves and their culture the better off they and America will be.

Following will only get one so far.
How will this benefit America as a whole? African-Americans contribute billions to the economy of the United States. If they stop purchasing goods and services in the name of "rejecting materialism" how will that help America?

I understand that you think rejecting material items are the way to go. You keep pointing to this unrealistic pie-in-the-sky dream. It's not going to happen. That's my point.

Many people argue that African-Americans refusal to completely assimilate into mainstream society has kept economic and educational disaparity between blacks and whites. You're calling for even less assimilation. How would that benefit African-Americans in this country?
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:37 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,360,593 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I actually get what you are saying and agree with much of it. I think the downfall at times has actually been being a part of the "mainstream" in this country. I've even have heard people question "integration" partially due to this and actually long for some of the communal things that occurred for Black people during segregation.
Yep! In a way, I think the CRM was putting the cart before the horse.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,726 posts, read 33,770,111 times
Reputation: 52006
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
Many of us are conditioned to achieve the American Dream: Education, comfortable living, nice home & car and a nuclear family. We educate ourselves, matriculate from the finest institutions, network, get that "dream job" and acquire material things. We've jumped through the brass ring, so we should be satisfied, right? Haven't we "made it"?...After all is said and done, many people find that they are miserable and unfulfilled; not ungrateful, but unsatisfied. The area where many of us are most unhappy is the workplace. The "glass ceiling" and "white privilege" realities are not something we learn about in college. I'm still amazed at the injustices and biases that exist on the development and promotion track in corporate America for African Americans. Despite our credentials, achievements and performance, we're often evaluated and regarded "differently". It's as if we're subjected to a different set of rules/employee conduct. Our wages are lower and scrutiny higher. If a new hire is African American, he/she is automatically assigned to us for mentorship, despite differences in career paths and interests, as if it's impossible for a white person to develop an Af. Am. We're not typically invited "on the boat", to the homes of or to go on vacation w/ our superiors to get that "extra edge". We're not generally selected to be "groomed" to advance in the corporation as readily as whites. Further, although our "counterparts" are free to socialize and converse w/ each other as well as w/us, we're afraid to speak to each other or make eye contact, let alone have a lengthy conversation, for fear of retribution or being accused of alienating ourselves from others, or being too exclusive. Sometimes, it seems the only way to find true success as an Af. Am. is to "sell out", compromise our ethics, or sacrifice our dignity. I have too much faith in God, self respect and confidence in my skills and abilities to do any of those things. Meritorious and ethical advancement is the only option for me. What do you think? Do share.
I'm surprised. I thought the only color important to corporate America was green (as in money). Why not speak up? Unless whatever product or service you are selling is aimed at some particular group of people where it's actually monetarily beneficial for the corporation to have, for example, blacks selling to blacks, women selling to women, old people selling to other old people, etc., who you mentor should be irrelevant. Just curious, do they assign new females, only to female mentors?
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:10 AM
 
259 posts, read 325,630 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
How will this benefit America as a whole? African-Americans contribute billions to the economy of the United States. If they stop purchasing goods and services in the name of "rejecting materialism" how will that help America?

I understand that you think rejecting material items are the way to go. You keep pointing to this unrealistic pie-in-the-sky dream. It's not going to happen. That's my point.

Many people argue that African-Americans refusal to completely assimilate into mainstream society has kept economic and educational disaparity between blacks and whites. You're calling for even less assimilation. How would that benefit African-Americans in this country?

People can still contribute billions to the economy with out being rampant materialists. I would rather see Blacks invest in the institutions that serve them well like HBCUs and other universities like UVA that has a strong record, than luxury cars and goods.

Investing in educational institutions and establishing power and influence in these institutions is much more productive that LOOKING like you made it.

When a university builds new buildings does it not produce jobs? When they buy more computing equipment, science and medical lab equipment does it not produce jobs?

As far as complete assimilation is concerned, why would I follow the norm of a people who are shooting themselves in the azzz? African Americans are generally highly culturally assimilated into American society.

There is nothing unrealistic or pie in the sky about it. My people live that way as do many others.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:09 AM
 
886 posts, read 1,927,599 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejuris View Post
Many of us are conditioned to achieve the American Dream: Education, comfortable living, nice home & car and a nuclear family. We educate ourselves, matriculate from the finest institutions, network, get that "dream job" and acquire material things. We've jumped through the brass ring, so we should be satisfied, right? Haven't we "made it"?...After all is said and done, many people find that they are miserable and unfulfilled; not ungrateful, but unsatisfied. The area where many of us are most unhappy is the workplace. The "glass ceiling" and "white privilege" realities are not something we learn about in college. I'm still amazed at the injustices and biases that exist on the development and promotion track in corporate America for African Americans. Despite our credentials, achievements and performance, we're often evaluated and regarded "differently". It's as if we're subjected to a different set of rules/employee conduct. Our wages are lower and scrutiny higher. If a new hire is African American, he/she is automatically assigned to us for mentorship, despite differences in career paths and interests, as if it's impossible for a white person to develop an Af. Am. We're not typically invited "on the boat", to the homes of or to go on vacation w/ our superiors to get that "extra edge". We're not generally selected to be "groomed" to advance in the corporation as readily as whites. Further, although our "counterparts" are free to socialize and converse w/ each other as well as w/us, we're afraid to speak to each other or make eye contact, let alone have a lengthy conversation, for fear of retribution or being accused of alienating ourselves from others, or being too exclusive. Sometimes, it seems the only way to find true success as an Af. Am. is to "sell out", compromise our ethics, or sacrifice our dignity. I have too much faith in God, self respect and confidence in my skills and abilities to do any of those things. Meritorious and ethical advancement is the only option for me. What do you think? Do share.
Man... I really wish I got all this white privilege I hear you speak of. I'm pretty sure a great many of my friends would like some also... all the benefits of being white and some how I keep missing out on them.


Working in many corporate places and some locally owned places around KC, i've never seen any blacks treated poorly, i've seen plenty in management positions(one job a few years back all the higher ups were black, women, or gay). I've never seen anyone think or give crap to black people in the workplace associating with other black people, maybe someone might think odd of it if that person ONLY associated with other black people, but i've never even seen that happen.

New hires, lets see i've trained plenty of them, including black ones, and never saw any sex or race assigned to the same except for one asian guy assigned to another, and thats cuz they were friends outside of work...

What exactly do you have to sell out on? LOL.... sounds to me maybe you just need to get a new job, or wherever you live plain sucks... but maybe I should move there, i've yet to get any special treatment being white, and in this economy i'll take any special treatment and privilege I can get.
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