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Unread 05-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Status: "Snow on the blooming daffodil!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
65,245 posts, read 51,525,837 times
Reputation: 17810
Quote:
St. Louis people sound just like people from Chicago today, and I was taught growing up that there were slave states, but that it did not mean they were Southern necessarily.
Re: the accent. I have a friends from both Texas and Missouri who say "shart" for "short". No one from Chicago talks that way. There are some other examples but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Some Chicagoans talk very nasally midwestern, some are a little easier on the ear.

You were taught one way growing up, I was taught another. Our teachers all teach from their biases. In W. Pennsylvania, slave states were southern; West Virginia was southern as well, even though it was a free state and it was the western counties of Virginia who opposed slavery that cededed from Virginia to become a free state. (At least that's what WE were taught.) Delaware was not much addressed. A small part of DE is north of the Mason-Dixon line. Some Delawareans have a southerly accent. (I have lived in Delaware.)


Quote:
Delaware was a slave state, and you would call that Southern as well? Most people I know would not. missouri while a slave state did not generally have slaves above the Missouri Compromise line and St. Louis was NEVER pro-Southern. And Missouri did not secede by an overwhelming amount
Well, secession is secession, is it not? Regardless of the vote, as long as it is 50% + 1, it is a majority.

 
Unread 05-20-2007, 09:23 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Re: the accent. I have a friends from both Texas and Missouri who say "shart" for "short". No one from Chicago talks that way. There are some other examples but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Some Chicagoans talk very nasally midwestern, some are a little easier on the ear.

You were taught one way growing up, I was taught another. Our teachers all teach from their biases. In W. Pennsylvania, slave states were southern; West Virginia was southern as well, even though it was a free state and it was the western counties of Virginia who opposed slavery that cededed from Virginia to become a free state. (At least that's what WE were taught.) Delaware was not much addressed. A small part of DE is north of the Mason-Dixon line. Some Delawareans have a southerly accent. (I have lived in Delaware.)




Well, secession is secession, is it not? Regardless of the vote, as long as it is 50% + 1, it is a majority.
I said Missouri did NOT secede! We voted overwhelmingly against secession. So did Delaware. I'm telling you, I am a St. Louisan myself. St. Louis has its own accent, which is Midwestern but it's slightly also unique. I just...don't see how we sound anything even remotely close to Texas. I sound as Midwestern as anybody I know. I guess people are entitled their own opinions. It is not one you find anywhere else in the U.S. and i live in the city. The accent here is not Southern. Texas people say y'all. We say you all. They say "yer." We say "your." We do not. Look on a dialect map. St. Louis has been long been cited as a center of Northern linguistic influence. You're the only person i've heard of who says St. Louis people sound Southern or that the St. Louis accent itself sounds southern. Yes it's unique but we don't have any type of twang that you find in the South. Generally in most of Missouri there is no Southern accent. it's all typical Midwestern. Chicago sounds different from Indianapolis and Columbus. THey are typical of an accent you find in the Upper Midwest....if you listen hard you hear a bit of a Canadian touch to it...the same thing in Cleveland according to my mother, who grew up there. I guess everybody's entitled to their own opinion. If you look at Louisvilleslugger's sources, nothing on there groups St. Louis in with the South for speech patterns. Oklahomans sound like Texans...Missourians generally talk either Midwestern or something pretty close to it. In the parts I agreed with Louisvilleslugger, Missourians sound Southern. Texas and Oklahoma have their own speech patterns. short and "Shart", that's about as Southern as the St. Louis accent gets. It's honestly not worth explaining it any clearer, if you want a clear idea of how we talk you should visit the city itself.
 
Unread 05-20-2007, 09:36 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Re: the accent. I have a friends from both Texas and Missouri who say "shart" for "short". No one from Chicago talks that way. There are some other examples but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Some Chicagoans talk very nasally midwestern, some are a little easier on the ear.

You were taught one way growing up, I was taught another. Our teachers all teach from their biases. In W. Pennsylvania, slave states were southern; West Virginia was southern as well, even though it was a free state and it was the western counties of Virginia who opposed slavery that cededed from Virginia to become a free state. (At least that's what WE were taught.) Delaware was not much addressed. A small part of DE is north of the Mason-Dixon line. Some Delawareans have a southerly accent. (I have lived in Delaware.)




Well, secession is secession, is it not? Regardless of the vote, as long as it is 50% + 1, it is a majority.
First off, i said Missouri didn't secede. We voted to stay in the Union by an overwhelming majority. St. Louis has long been a center of Northern linguistic influence, that's fact. Also, if you look at the dialect map up there, most of Missouri has some type of a Midland accent. St. Louis has an accent different from rural Missouri all together. we sound a lot like Chicago. If you look at the map there is a big circle around St. Louis which says it has an accent unique to the type of Midland accent that it lies in. i've noticed pretty strong similarities actually between St. Louis and Chicago. Ask Plains10, another native Missourian on here who has said this. the parts of Missouri that might sound like Texas would be southwest Missouri around the Oklahoma border. Let me also add that the Texas and Oklahoma accents are kind of distinct from the South, I'm not sure i'd label those as Southern accents everywhere. Compare it to Arkansas and Louisiana and you notice distinct differences. In any case, I guess you can think what you want but I'm positive many people would disagree with what you've said about Missouri and St. Louis thus far, including most sources. Southern accents do exist in Missouri, but generally only in far South Central and Southeastern Missouri roughly on a line starting from where the OHio River flows into the Mississippi and heading due west (Mason-Dixon). St. Louis is Midwestern to the core, and most of Missouri besides it's extreme southern portions fits the definition of a lower Midwestern state fairly well.

Last edited by ajf131; 05-20-2007 at 09:46 PM..
 
Unread 05-20-2007, 10:28 PM
Status: "Snow on the blooming daffodil!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
65,245 posts, read 51,525,837 times
Reputation: 17810
OK, so I stand corrected on the secession thing. I guess MO was a border state, like Maryland, that allowed slavery but didn't secede. I am interested in the accent business, but I'm honestly too tired tonight to put together a post that makes any sense. Maybe another time.
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 09:48 AM
 
Location: In God
3,073 posts, read 8,092,443 times
Reputation: 510
I thought this thread would have been closed by now.

I think what we need to accept is that we can't force others to believe what we think. Truth is, you're going to get a lot of Virginia natives upset when you tell them that their state is not half as southern as Mississippi or Georgia, and a lot of Texans will disagree with you saying that it's not truly the South. It's obvious that on this thread, there were many who had narrow minded perceptions of what the South is, but a lot of us realized that this region is not defined by those silly stereotypes.
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Western Chicagoland
18,537 posts, read 46,873,012 times
Reputation: 7213
If you really think about it, EVERY state, when viewed from Canada, is a southern state. There, end of story.
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 10:08 AM
 
Location: In God
3,073 posts, read 8,092,443 times
Reputation: 510
Well, there you have it.
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
6,758 posts, read 13,634,827 times
Reputation: 1986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagus View Post


Sure have been there, and they darn well DO know what grits and sweet tea are!
and most of the people I know do not say POP. It's either soda or just plain coke. Where in Louisville did you go????
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 03:06 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
If you really think about it, EVERY state, when viewed from Canada, is a southern state. There, end of story.
True, but what if we're talking about Mexico?
 
Unread 05-22-2007, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
2,917 posts, read 5,004,662 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpope409 View Post
Well that could easily be argued. In Texas, we say pork rinds, so...
Ahhhh, but that is only so as not to confuse our northern and californian transplants. We'uns say PokeSkins when we iz alone.
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