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Old 05-25-2007, 08:20 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053

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I thought we were done with the Missouri thing. If not, I may have a contribution to make.

 
Old 05-25-2007, 08:53 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,901,869 times
Reputation: 660
The only parts of Missouri which are Southern in demeanor, culture, dialect, everything are the far Southeastern portions of the state as well as the Ozark plateau around Springfield and Joplin. That is the simple truth, and dialect maps as well as the U.S. Census Bureau back this up. Plus we are mostly above the MAson-Dixon (MO Compromise line across Missouri, OHio River, Pennsylvania-Maryland border.) What else do I need to say here? Saying Missouri is Southern these days is like saying Kentucky is Midwestern.
 
Old 05-26-2007, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Morehead City, NC
1,676 posts, read 5,355,449 times
Reputation: 1244
I live along the coast of North Carolina. Anyone north of here is a "Yankee". Everyone else is from Raleigh.
The indigenous personnel here have two names for folks not from here, "Dit-Dot and "Ding Batter"

Bill

Last edited by Bill Hitchcock; 05-26-2007 at 05:52 AM..
 
Old 05-26-2007, 06:47 AM
 
12 posts, read 43,547 times
Reputation: 11
I would add West Virginia to the list. Also, lots of southeastern Kentucky and even Evansville Indiana has a southern culture.
 
Old 05-26-2007, 10:41 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,901,869 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringontheSun View Post
I would add West Virginia to the list. Also, lots of southeastern Kentucky and even Evansville Indiana has a southern culture.
I would agree with that. Kentucky and West Virginia I think actually qualify as a Southern. Southern Indiana does have Southern elements to it. I'd also say South Dakota

Last edited by ajf131; 05-26-2007 at 10:53 AM..
 
Old 05-26-2007, 08:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Well, yeah, South Dakota, sure. But in regard to accents, none of the maps presented by Louisvilleslugger show St. Louis and Chicago having the same accent. In fact, the most detailed map shows St. Louis having its own accent, as do Pittsburgh and Chicago. So whether St. Louis is north or south or something else, as ajf131 contends, its natives do not talk like Chicagoans.
 
Old 05-26-2007, 08:08 PM
 
Location: north georgia
62 posts, read 186,229 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
Missouri is not the South, it's far more Midwestern. Sorry to break it to you. Oklahoma and Texas are both southern and western at the same time.
missouri is a southern state to me so therefore its a southern state...it had people many of them that fought for the south's independence from the yankees so its a southern state
 
Old 05-27-2007, 02:47 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,901,869 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by REBEL88 View Post
missouri is a southern state to me so therefore its a southern state...it had people many of them that fought for the south's independence from the yankees so its a southern state
Really? So your opinion supercedes mine and the facts of history? I know many South Carolinians who think Missouri is not Southern, in fact seven are relatives of mine who visit every year and have lived in the South for over 30 years. Missourians generally don't have a Southern accent, there is virtually no sweet tea in this state, Missouri has four very distinct seasons, something most of the South does not, and there are significantly more Catholics than Southern Baptists, even though both have a large presence. THe Southern Baptists generally are found in the Southern areas of the state. Missouri is mostly above the Mason-Dixon line. THe South feels much more foreign to me than the Midwest does, I am telling it as I've experienced it and i have been to the South and other Midwestern states many times...in fact my mother's entire family is from Cleveland, Ohio and they see Missouri is being more Midwestern than Southern. St. Louis is DEFINITELY not Southern, it's as Midwestern as Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Columbus, and Kansas City. 50,000 people fought for the South...100,000-110,000 for the North...is that indicative of a Southern state? not to me! Missouri voted for Douglas during the Civil War election...a pro-Union, anti-secessionist from Springfield, Illinois (actually more reflective of Illinois as a whole than Lincoln) who didn't touch the issue of slavery...no Southern state came even close to voting for him.We did not secede, our economy did not depend on slavery and the truth of the matter is we cut most of our ties to the South after the Civil War. Also, Dred Scott was freed by Missouri but the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the ruling. I just don't understand why people think Missouri is the same state it was 150 years ago. Back then, even for a slave state, it had more of a neutral attitude than a pro-Southern one. PEople think that I have something against the South. THat's a load of crap, my father's entire family is Southern. Every one of them considers Missouri Midwestern. My opinions are based on my knowledge of the history of this state as well as my experience living here. After the Civil War, Missouri became far more Midwestern than Southern. While it may have more Southern characteristics than other Midwestern states, they do not overpower the Midwestern ones and most of them do not occupy anywhere near half of this state. It's whole history going back before the Civl War is not that of a Midwestern state, I admit that's true, but it's obviously not exactly that of a Southern one either...after the Civil War it pretty much assumed the role of a Midwestern state. The Southern argument, especially today, is a ludicrous one in my book. If people have to disagree, fine...I stand by my opinion and if I have to give sources to back them up I'd be more than happy to. Louisvilleslugger's maps actually seem to overall back most of my claims. Very few characteristics about Missouri are Southern, and few to none make equal to or more than 50% of the state. Until I see overwhelming amounts of modern characteristics that place nearly all of Missouri in the South, of which as far as I can tell there are none of, I'm content to say it's the Midwest. There are far more arguments to made today that it's Midwestern than there are Southern. Plain and simple. So it's an overall Midwestern state.

Last edited by ajf131; 05-27-2007 at 04:03 AM..
 
Old 05-27-2007, 02:51 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,901,869 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Well, yeah, South Dakota, sure. But in regard to accents, none of the maps presented by Louisvilleslugger show St. Louis and Chicago having the same accent. In fact, the most detailed map shows St. Louis having its own accent, as do Pittsburgh and Chicago. So whether St. Louis is north or south or something else, as ajf131 contends, its natives do not talk like Chicagoans.
If we don't talk like Chicagoans, so be it. But St. Louis is not Southern...I will be damned if we are anything like Louisville. We are every bit as Midwestern as Cincinnati, Kansas City, Indianapolis, and Columbus. that's fact. You won't hear any Southern-type accents around here, if you do, they are from people not native to this city. Fact. I have lived here over 20 years and the only Southern accents I've heard are from people whom I have heard admit to being from the South. in fact, go back throughout time, you will notice this city behaved differently from even Missouri. There is nothing about today which anyone could claim is Southern. We are industrial, we gained population from the Great Migration, we don't say y'all and we don't have twangs, we're a strongly Catholic city, we don't have sweet tea, architecturally we are Midwestern and our city is rust-belted. St. Louis is Midwestern to its very core.

Last edited by ajf131; 05-27-2007 at 04:08 AM..
 
Old 05-27-2007, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
9 posts, read 29,320 times
Reputation: 11
We can draw lines for the sake of convenience--I personally think in terms of the Mason-Dixon line, because that's what I've always been taught--but culturally and topographically, the shift between Midwest and South is a continuum, not a line, hence the "ambiguity" of Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, and even Illinois, Ohio, Indiana--a.k.a. all the "border states." We might as well lump these states into a whole new region. FYI, as a Central Ohioan, I identify as 100% Midwestern, even if we are often considered a "redneck" state. Redneck does not equal Southern, and if anyone wants proof...come to Ohio. Even so, I can go down south without wondering where the hell I am, like I do in the Northeast. It's not that uncommon to hear traces of Southern dialect in my area, and we have tons of Waffle Houses, too. However, I do get antsy when I can't see the horizon or hear silence on Wednesday at noon...

I'd say the best way to differentiate between the Midwest and anywhere else is to mention Cornhole. If people look at you like just said something dirty, you ain't in the Midwest.
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