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Old 05-27-2007, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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I agree with the ambiguity of Ky, Mo, W. VA, and a few others. However, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana are not "border" states. There was no slavery in these states. I have lived in Ill, my daughter in Indiana and the people there consider themselves northerners. N. Ill is very northern, with cold, cold winters. N. Indiana is more moderate because of L. Michigan, but no part of Ind. is really southern, though there are people in Evansville who speak with a southern accent. Ohio? I guess you know more than I about that Iulie.

 
Old 05-27-2007, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Richmond
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Wow... I guess no one seem to be able to agree on which states are Southern.

I think IMO, The South are the 11 Former States of the Confederacy. Plus Kentucky and Oklahoma
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:13 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
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A big research project was done recently by the University of North Carolina to see what percentage of residents of the "Border" and Southern states identify themselves as Southern. The results for the ones most in question I recall were around 70%-80% of Kentuckians out of 200 identifying themselves as Southern, only 23% of Missourians identifying themselves as Southern, surprisingly to me at least 69% of Oklahomans identifying themselves as Southern, and Delaware and Maryland and D.C. somewhere between 10 and 20% of residents identifying themselves as Southern. Each sample was around 200 people from each state and district of Columbia. These results I think make pretty clear where each state should be grouped. Who better to ask about a state's identity than the residents themselves? I think personally that's the best insight you'll get.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:54 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
Yes they do list us in the South occasionally...I can't deny that. But they much more often list in the Midwest...and as you have so insightfully concluded....most people these do not consider Missouri Southern. those that do are behind on the times IMO at least. I have been to every Southern state and every Midwestern state and the South feels much more foreign to me than the midwest in every way (dialect, climate, landscape, politics, culture, architecture, and the list goes on.) If we cannot be considered Midwestern, we have to be considered a border state because no true Southern culture exists throughout most of the state.
I've been to Lexington Missouri. There were people with slight southern accents & the cultrue was southern as well.

I've also been to Poplar Bluff Missouri, I have family there. They consider themselves southern. The culture there was southern.

I think Missouri is a great state. It has a mixture of southern culture, midwestern culture & northern culture.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:59 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REBEL88 View Post
missouri is a southern state to me so therefore its a southern state...it had people many of them that fought for the south's independence from the yankees so its a southern state
I think it matters on what the people living there think. Most people that live in Missouri, don't consider the state southern. But there are a lot of people in Missouri, that consider themselves southern & consider SOME parts of Missouri southern.

When I was there, some parts of Missouri would mock how other people in other parts talk & act.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 09:04 AM
 
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Here is what I consider southern.

Kentucky, Most of VA, Tennessee, N. Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, GA, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas Most of Texas & A lot of Oklahoma.

Some parts of Missouri are southern & some are culturally southern. BUT MOST is Midwestern.

I really don't see all the fuss.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
124 posts, read 70,113 times
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The South:

Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida panhandle.

"Southish":

Texas (because of the Western influence, also because it has its own "nationality" I don't consider it a southern state. It's really its own country )
Oklahoma (southern aspects, but also western aspects)
West Virginia (there are some southern elements in WV)
 
Old 05-28-2007, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
9 posts, read 29,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
I agree with the ambiguity of Ky, Mo, W. VA, and a few others. However, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana are not "border" states. There was no slavery in these states. I have lived in Ill, my daughter in Indiana and the people there consider themselves northerners. N. Ill is very northern, with cold, cold winters. N. Indiana is more moderate because of L. Michigan, but no part of Ind. is really southern, though there are people in Evansville who speak with a southern accent. Ohio? I guess you know more than I about that Iulie.
In calling them "border states," I meant OH, IL and IN mark the Northern side of the North/South border (to those of us who use the Mason-Dixon line, anyway). But I agree that all three are definitely the North.

Ohio winters are nasty all over the state. Pipes break, power goes out, gas leaks, radiators explode (which cause a gigantic flood in my dorm this past winter), people are in denial of how bad the roads are...I just might have to move South, and give everyone a good laugh by passing out in 85-degree weather.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 02:17 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
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I can say with absolute certainty that Missouri and Kentucky both seem far from ambiguous by today's standards. Missouri's climate may not be as cold as Ohio's overall but it is significantly colder throughout most of the state in the winter than in most of the South. Also, Southern Indiana in my view has some stronger influence from the South than Southern Missouri even. Sweet tea is all over Southern Indiana, and the speech patterns I here in southern indiana represent most of those throughout Southern Missouri and Southern Illinois save extreme Southeastern Missouri and generally areas below U.S. 60. I agree Missouri may not be as Northern as Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio but it's far more similar to these three states than any state you will find in the South...it has about 80% more in common with these three than it does with any state of the South. Kentucky has about 80% more in common with Tennessee and Virginia than the Midwest. Even most of the state's climate is much warmer than most of Missouri. For that reason I think an argument for ambiguity just doesn't apply. Now as to West Virginia...that I think is truly an ambiguous state. I also think that most of Southern Missouri, which is mostly above the MAson-Dixon, is not a whole lot more Southern than Southern Illinois or Southern Indiana. Feel free to disagree. Most of the residents of this state will tell you that this state doesn't become overwhelmingly Southern until around when you hit U.S. 60, maybe a bit north of there. Likewise with Kentucky, nothing is overwhelmingly Midwestern unless ur in the Cincy metro. while missouri and kentucky may sit next to each other, they really are opposites of one another in almost every way I can think of. missouri is overall midwestern with some southern characteristics, Kentucky is overall Southern with some Midwestern characteristics.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Nashville
81 posts, read 297,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131
...I agree Missouri may not be as Northern as Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio but it's far more similar to these three states than any state you will find in the South...it has about 80% more in common with these three than it does with any state of the South...
The southern half of Missouri IS THE SOUTH. And compared to the Southern states, the southern half of Missouri is VERY Southern. From the moment one crosses the Mississippi at Cairo into the flat, fertile floodplain of Missouri one realizes he is in Dixie. Sure, southern Illinois, Indiana and Ohio have southern influences, but not like anything like the southern character of Missouri. When you're in southern Missouri, you're in the South.

I traveled thru the Showme state last summer and let me tell you, I could swear I was in Mississippi. The hot, humid summers are more in line with the South than the rest of the Midwest. There was a Waffle House and Sonic at virtually every exit. And both Springfield and Rolla could have been anywhere throughout the Upland South after stopping through.

Also Missouri is home to a sizeable population of rural African Americans, NOT UNLIKE THE SOUTH.

As far as St. Louis is concerned it is definitely a Midwestern city but it DEFINITELY has Southern influences too. While talking to some native St. Louisians along the way I did detect a noticeable twang, not unlike a hybrid Dixie city. I realize that St. Louisans pronounce for and far the same way for example, which is a Northern trait. But St. Louis has a climate, local vernacular of African-Americans, and overall vibe similar to other hybrid Dixie cities like Baltimore, Cincinnati, Louisville, Oklahoma City, and Wilmington.

It's almost as if certain people are ashamed of Dixie. I lived in South Carolina and LOVED IT. There's nothing wrong with the South but in some places, you'd swear that having anything to do with the South was the mother of all insults, and South equals backwards, conservative, slow, and less desireable than "elitist" places.

Last edited by DefaultAlias; 05-28-2007 at 04:27 PM..
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