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Old 05-28-2007, 07:44 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 2,946,353 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
The southern half of Missouri IS THE SOUTH. And compared to the Southern states, the southern half of Missouri is VERY Southern. From the moment one crosses the Mississippi at Cairo into the flat, fertile floodplain of Missouri one realizes he is in Dixie. Sure, southern Illinois, Indiana and Ohio have southern influences, but not like anything like the southern character of Missouri. When you're in southern Missouri, you're in the South.

I traveled thru the Showme state last summer and let me tell you, I could swear I was in Mississippi. The hot, humid summers are more in line with the South than the rest of the Midwest. There was a Waffle House and Sonic at virtually every exit. And both Springfield and Rolla could have been anywhere throughout the Upland South after stopping through.

Also Missouri is home to a sizeable population of rural African Americans, NOT UNLIKE THE SOUTH.

As far as St. Louis is concerned it is definitely a Midwestern city but it DEFINITELY has Southern influences too. While talking to some native St. Louisians along the way I did detect a noticeable twang, not unlike a hybrid Dixie city. I realize that St. Louisans pronounce for and far the same way for example, which is a Northern trait. But St. Louis has a climate, local vernacular of African-Americans, and overall vibe similar to other hybrid Dixie cities like Baltimore, Cincinnati, Louisville, Oklahoma City, and Wilmington.

It's almost as if certain people are ashamed of Dixie. I lived in South Carolina and LOVED IT. There's nothing wrong with the South but in some places, you'd swear that having anything to do with the South was the mother of all insults, and South equals backwards, conservative, slow, and less desireable than "elitist" places.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe St. Louis has its own accent? And as far as I can tell it's hardly twanged...it's Midwestern with a unique touch to it. Chicagoans , people from Minneapolis, and Milwaukee all have very distinct accents. Also, the Midwest is far from a generalized landscape. Southern Missouri and Southern Ohio from what I've gathered don't look incredibly different, both very hilly and parts of Southern Ohio I've noticed tend to be cliffy like Southern Missouri, and SOuthern Illinois's Shawnee Forest and Southern Indiana's Ohio River bluffs have the same cliffiness Southern Missouri has. Southern Illinois along the Mississippi looks no different than Southern Missouri. Also, nobody has a true Southern dialect until you significantly far south into the state. There is no sweet tea in most of Missouri, and Indiana and Ohio as a whole don't differ much more in views politically than Missouri as a whole. St. Louis and KC are very liberal cities. Also, Catholics outnumber Southern Baptists. I know several ex-New Yorkers who live in Joplin that think even down there you don't find the southern speech patterns that you find in Kentucky, and that the climate is definitely more Northern than Southern....SE Missouri is the only part of the state which truly qualifies overwhelmingly as Southern. Until I see more than 50% of Southern Missouri showing all the Southern traits Sikeston, MO has, I have no reason to agree with anything you've said. Illinois and Indiana get hot summers just like us. Last summer was a heat wave throughout all of the Midwest. You'd be surprised at how much colder our winters are than most of the South...they are much more in line with most of downstate IL below below I-80 as a whole. The northern half of this state is 100% Midwestern. The Southern half is not as Midwestern but most of it does not truly qualify as Dixie until you get significantly close to Arkansas. Most of Southern Missouri doesn't look like any Southern state I've ever been to... much of it's covered by a miniature mountain range, of course it's gonna look different from the plains. In fact, parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio look a lot like the mountainous terrain of Southern Missouri. When somebody can give me proof that Southern Missourians have noticeably strong Southern speech patterns in 50% of the state, and that sweet tea exists everywhere and that our weather mirrors that of Arkansas and most of Kentucky year-round, then I'll agree it's Southern. Until then, the facts prove all of those theories wrong. Our summers are nothing like Mississippi's. Heat waves have been ravaging the Midwest throughout the past few summers...even places like Minneapolis have exceeded 100 degrees in temperature several times. Trust me....Mississippi is normally a good 10 degrees hotter than most of Missouri. Also, there are many Waffle Houses in Ohio, Indiana, and Colorado. If you're so determined to include Southern Missouri in the south, that's fine...the Southern characteristics you are pointing out are not distinguishing enough from the rest of the Midwest to convince me Southern Missouri belongs in Arkansas.

Last edited by ajf131; 05-28-2007 at 08:10 PM..

 
Old 05-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Status: "Corn well over knee high!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
67,301 posts, read 54,882,833 times
Reputation: 18706
Quote:
Now as to West Virginia...that I think is truly an ambiguous state.
West Virigina was formed when the western counties of Virigina (hence the name West Virginia) seceded from Virginia over the issue of Virginia's secession. They wanted to stay in the union. It is not clear from Wikipedia or any maps that I could find, if West Virginia allowed any slavery. WV was required to gradually abolish slavery to be admitted to the union. Per Wikipedia, the census bureau considers WV to be 'south', even though parts of it are north of the Mason-Dixon line. As a kid growing up in PA, we all thought WV was the south even though we lived in a county that had a western border with it.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Joplin
2,201 posts, read 1,647,966 times
Reputation: 4243
You Go ajf131.
HEY DefaultAlias, I am one of thise New Yorkers that ajf is talking about. I grew up in Brooklyn NY and mover to southern MO a few years back. As a person coming from as far east as they come and hating the southern culture as much as every other NY'er I can say from personal experience that southern or at least SW MO is by far not southern in culture. If it was I would move. Sure you have your toothless rednecks that are complete idiots, but no more than in NY, Chacigo, Cleveland or any other city. Perhaps your experience was a southern one but it was certainly isolated. I have what most people call a "deep deep NY accent". I can spot southern accent. So, until you have lived here, you have no right to make a BOLD comment about a particular culture in a given area that you have spent no or little time other than driving through and making the occasional pit stop to take a leak and get a corn dog.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
9 posts, read 22,166 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
It's almost as if certain people are ashamed of Dixie. I lived in South Carolina and LOVED IT. There's nothing wrong with the South but in some places, you'd swear that having anything to do with the South was the mother of all insults, and South equals backwards, conservative, slow, and less desireable than "elitist" places.
Ugh, anti-southern elitism bugs me so much. Too many northerners use their ideals of "diversity" and "tolerance" to crucify those who don't buy their dogma. "Accept and embrace ALL lifestyles, but God forbid you be from the south..." To all southerners reading this, I swear we're not all like that. Hell, a lot of us fit the unabashedly politically incorrect, unsophisticated, Christian lunatic stereotypes ourselves, and when a northerner holds such characteristics against the south, they'd better realize they're insulting and marginalizing people from their own region.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
9 posts, read 22,166 times
Reputation: 11
Chill the hell out, people.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Joplin
2,201 posts, read 1,647,966 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iúile View Post
Chill the hell out, people.
Dont hate! I'm chilled! I'm not saying that I hate southerners, I just cant stand the sound of that twang and hillbilly slure. Southerners are generally very nice people. I'm just saying that you cant classify ALL of southern MO as southern. SE MO..... I could see it. SW MO, not a chance. There is a big difference between Cape Gir MO and Springfield. KCMO, STL, Springfield, Joplin all have the similar midwest attitude with STL a little more eastern or northern.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Nashville
81 posts, read 210,059 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsd353 View Post
You Go ajf131.
HEY DefaultAlias, I am one of thise New Yorkers that ajf is talking about. I grew up in Brooklyn NY and mover to southern MO a few years back. As a person coming from as far east as they come and hating the southern culture as much as every other NY'er I can say from personal experience that southern or at least SW MO is by far not southern in culture. If it was I would move. Sure you have your toothless rednecks that are complete idiots, but no more than in NY, Chacigo, Cleveland or any other city. Perhaps your experience was a southern one but it was certainly isolated. I have what most people call a "deep deep NY accent". I can spot southern accent. So, until you have lived here, you have no right to make a BOLD comment about a particular culture in a given area that you have spent no or little time other than driving through and making the occasional pit stop to take a leak and get a corn dog.
Irrelevant. What does your thick New York accent or how many you can "spot" have to do with Missouri being partially Southern? I grew up in Chicago and have lived in South Carolina and Indianapolis. I currently live in Nashville. Does that make me a messiah for the culture pertaining to Southern and Midwestern states? No.

I LOVE the South. It's apparent however that you and ajf feel differently. You might want to deal with that.

Do me a favor: Speak for your self the next time you start posting BS.

Last edited by DefaultAlias; 05-28-2007 at 08:56 PM..
 
Old 05-28-2007, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Joplin
2,201 posts, read 1,647,966 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
Irrelevant. I grew up in Chicago and have lived in South Carolina and Indianapolis. I currently live in Nashville.

Do me a favor and speak for your self the next time you start posting BS.
You need to do the same. You obviously know nothing about Missouri. I dont act like I know something about TN, dont speak about MO if you have no clue.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Nashville
81 posts, read 210,059 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsd353 View Post
You need to do the same. You obviously know nothing about Missouri. I dont act like I know something about TN, dont speak about MO if you have no clue.
I beg to differ. I know plenty about Missouri because I have family there. I wouldn't have offered my opinion if I thought it was the least bit misleading.

It is WIDELY known that Missouri is a state of Southern influence, much more so than any other Midwestern state. It is a hybrid state; a state where two distinct cultural regions meet. Because there is no natural boundary like a river or a mountain range, it becomes difficult to apply it to a sole region; however it just doesn't make sense to identify Missouri in one region over the other. If you and ajf had your way, you would place Missouri in the Midwest region while ignoring its Southern influence altogether.

You obviously have a low opinion of the South or else you would acknoweledge how it's influenced the southern half of Missouri. I just cannot understand why people are so ashamed of Dixie. And this coming from a "hardcore" Chicagoan.

People generally identify Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio with the Midwest. People generally identify Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi with the South. Missouri is unique in people identify it with either region.

I didn't even say Missouri as a whole was Southern because it isn't. I'm applying what I've said to the southern half. Missouri is not 100% Southern like the other states Mississippi, Tennessee, S. Carolina, etc but that doesn't mean it isn't Southern at all. I would say the line can be drawn around St. Louis.

Southern Missouri is The South. Just like Kentucky and Louisville. It's not an opinion. But if you don't want to accept the reality of it, that's your problem, not mine.

Next time I roll through Missoura, I'll be sure to give you two a good ol' fashioned yeeeehaw!

Last edited by DefaultAlias; 05-28-2007 at 09:28 PM..
 
Old 05-28-2007, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Joplin
2,201 posts, read 1,647,966 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
I beg to differ. I know plenty about Missouri because I have family there. I wouldn't have offered my opinion if I thought it was the least bit misleading.

It is WIDELY known that Missouri is a state of Southern influence, much more so than any other Midwestern state. It is a hybrid state; a state where two distinct cultural regions meet. Because there is no natural boundary like a river or a mountain range, it becomes difficult to apply it to a sole region; however it just doesn't make sense to identify Missouri in one region over the other. If you and ajf had your way, you would place Missouri in the Midwest region while ignoring its Southern influence altogether.

You obviously have a low opinion of the South or else you would acknoweledge how it's influenced the southern half of Missouri. I just cannot understand why people are so ashamed of Dixie. And this coming from a "hardcore" Chicagoan.

People generally identify Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio with the Midwest. People generally identify Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi with the South. Missouri is unique in people identify it with either region.

I didn't even say Missouri as a whole was Southern because it isn't. I'm applying what I've said to the southern half. Missouri is not 100% Southern like the other states Mississippi, Tennessee, S. Carolina, etc but that doesn't mean it isn't Southern at all. I would say the line can be drawn around St. Louis.

Southern Missouri is The South. Just like Kentucky and Louisville. It's not an opinion. But if you don't want to accept the reality of it, that's your problem, not mine.

Next time I roll through Missoura, I'll be sure to give you two a good ol' fashioned yeeeehaw!
We give popknots for that sort uhh thing round heere
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