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Old 05-29-2007, 12:43 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,914,308 times
Reputation: 660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
Source: National Weather Service
NOAA's National Weather Service

Average snowfall Indianapolis: 28 inches
Average snowfall St. Louis: 14 inches
Average snowfall Louisville: 10 inches

Average summer high/low Indianapolis: 85/65
Average summer high/low St. Louis: 91/71
Average summer high/low Louisville: 87/70

Average winter high/low Indianapolis: 34/16
Average winter high/low St. Louis: 38/22
Average winter high/low Louisville: 40/24

Now you tell me which two locations have the most similar climate.
Where the hell did you get the data for St. Louis' average snowfall? I've got data saying the average snowfall for St. Louis is 22.5 inches! Welcome to The Weather Underground : Weather Underground
This website bases its statistics strictly from that of the NOAA as well. I looked it up and they match.
Look up St. Louis. That should give you more accurate data. 14 inches is far too low. Unless you are talking about snowfall for this year. Historical averages are around 20 inches.
Here is my noaa website. Look under normal snowfall for St. Louis. That's roughly around the same as the average snowfall.
Central Region Headquarters Text Product Display
National Weather Service Forecast Office - St. Louis, MO

These graphs show St. Louis' average to be around twenty inches of snow, more accurately 18.6 inches as of 2004-2005, not 14 inches like you claim. I think you need to get your sources worked out. We couldn't have gone through two winters to drag the average down to 14...do you realize that would mean having to have something like no snowfall for two years? This site shows the average summer high to be around 82.7 and the low to be around 72.9....unless that 82.7 has skyrocketed to 91 in the last two years, which I seriously doubt, your sources need to be revised. Something just doesn't square with your statistics. Honestly, I'm sick of arguing. We both know St. Louis is not Southern, i'm sick of this game. 14 inches of snow I know is an incorrect number for STL, that is off by around 5 inches at least. Every other source I've found out there says St. Louis gets between 18-22 inches of snow. Besides, who cares...with global warming these days averages for all these cities really don't seem to matter that much anyway. Look at snowfall patterns for the last several years and it's kind of ambiguous. St. Louis' climate is more like something in between those two cities. In any case, Louisville's climate isn't an indication of its culture. It's weather is more typical of a lower Midwest city (specifically St. Louis, Kansas, Cincinnati) than a Southern one....due to its location on the Ohio River. If St. Louis were more east of the Great Lakes, you might see higher numbers of snowfall. No Southern city that I am aware of unless it is in the mountains averages above 10 inches of snow if that. It's only 100 miles south of Indy...and the National Weather Forecast, and the Weather Channel, which likely share the same sources, actually consider Kentucky to be climatalogically part of the Midwest. So that essentially kills any Southern argument right there for Missouri's climate. Culturally, obviously Kentucky is not Midwest. I've argued about this for long enough. So far, every argument I've seen for Missouri being South has been one that can be easily countered with another. You're not going to convince me I'm a Southerner until you prove that dialect, culture, etc. overpower the Midwestern elements in Missouri and that the Ohio doesn't intersect the Mississippi at the sw tip of Illinois. Yes there are some Southern characteristics to Missouri, but the Midwestern ones obviously overpower the Southern ones. Why is there such a need to group Missouri in the south when clearly Dixie occupies less than a quarter, maybe slightly more above U.S. 60, of Southern Missouri alone? Most Missourians will tell you that those are the regions of the state that are considered Southern, especially the SE parts, and it's not because we are "afraid" of Southerness. In any case, I'm through with this pointless debate. The facts are Missouri is an overall Midwestern state with a little Dixie mixed in, but it's still predominantly Midwestern. Feel free to debate this because I think I've debated long enough and gotten enough confirmed in my favor for me to be content. later my fellow Americans

Last edited by ajf131; 05-29-2007 at 01:31 AM..

 
Old 05-29-2007, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Nashville
81 posts, read 297,106 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
Where the hell did you get the data for St. Louis' average snowfall? I've got data saying the average snowfall for St. Louis is 22.5 inches! Welcome to The Weather Underground : Weather Underground
This website bases its statistics strictly from that of the NOAA as well. I looked it up and they match.
Look up St. Louis. That should give you more accurate data. 14 inches is far too low. Unless you are talking about snowfall for this year. Historical averages are around 20 inches.
Here is my noaa website. Look under normal snowfall for St. Louis. That's roughly around the same as the average snowfall.
Central Region Headquarters Text Product Display
National Weather Service Forecast Office - St. Louis, MO

These graphs show St. Louis' average to be around twenty inches of snow, more accurately 18.6 inches as of 2004-2005, not 14 inches like you claim. I think you need to get your sources worked out. We couldn't have gone through two winters to drag the average down to 14...do you realize that would mean having to have something like no snowfall for two years? This site shows the average summer high to be around 82.7 and the low to be around 72.9....unless that 82.7 has skyrocketed to 91 in the last two years, which I seriously doubt, your sources need to be revised. Something just doesn't square with your statistics. Honestly, I'm sick of arguing. We both know St. Louis is not Southern, i'm sick of this game. 14 inches of snow I know is an incorrect number for STL, that is off by around 5 inches at least. Every other source I've found out there says St. Louis gets between 18-22 inches of snow. Besides, who cares...with global warming these days averages for all these cities really don't seem to matter that much anyway. Look at snowfall patterns for the last several years and it's kind of ambiguous. St. Louis' climate is more like something in between those two cities. In any case, Louisville's climate isn't an indication of its culture. It's weather is more typical of a lower Midwest city (specifically St. Louis, Kansas, Cincinnati) than a Southern one....due to its location on the Ohio River. If St. Louis were more east of the Great Lakes, you might see higher numbers of snowfall. No Southern city that I am aware of unless it is in the mountains averages above 10 inches of snow if that. It's only 100 miles south of Indy...and the National Weather Forecast, and the Weather Channel, which likely share the same sources, actually consider Kentucky to be climatalogically part of the Midwest. So that essentially kills any Southern argument right there for Missouri's climate. Culturally, obviously Kentucky is not Midwest. I've argued about this for long enough. So far, every argument I've seen for Missouri being South has been one that can be easily countered with another. You're not going to convince me I'm a Southerner until you prove that dialect, culture, etc. overpower the Midwestern elements in Missouri and that the Ohio doesn't intersect the Mississippi at the sw tip of Illinois. Yes there are some Southern characteristics to Missouri, but the Midwestern ones obviously overpower the Southern ones. Why is there such a need to group Missouri in the south when clearly Dixie occupies less than a quarter, maybe slightly more above U.S. 60, of Southern Missouri alone? Most Missourians will tell you that those are the regions of the state that are considered Southern, especially the SE parts, and it's not because we are "afraid" of Southerness. In any case, I'm through with this pointless debate. The facts are Missouri is an overall Midwestern state with a little Dixie mixed in, but it's still predominantly Midwestern. Feel free to debate this because I think I've debated long enough and gotten enough confirmed in my favor for me to be content. later my fellow Americans
The weather statistics that I used were averages from this past season. Older statistics are virtually irrelevant now, thanks to global warming.

I'm glad to see that you've done your homework. But just understand that I'm not here to convince you that half of Missouri is southern; you obviously are going to believe what you want to and stick with your opinion. I'm sure you're a grown man that uses good judgement--well, most of time anyway.

I'm just here to explain to you that I believe half of Missoura is in fact southern, and I'm here to explain to you why I feel half of Missoura is in fact southern. That's all.

And by the way, I can refute every claim you've made with three short words: Missouri had slaves. The prime cultural trait of the South, along with dialect. Any state that was not a free state is at least, in some part, Southern. Case closed.

I don't think this a pointless debate, and neither do you deep down inside. If it was, you've wouldn't have gone out of your way trying to convince me otherwise.

I'm going to get back to work now. Have a good day.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 10:18 AM
 
301 posts, read 1,267,217 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowimsouthern View Post
I'm a Kentuckian by birth,grew up in Michigan.but the place where i was born will always be my home,is KY the south ?yes...as are the other 17 states of the south.but i think the south is also in ones mind. some people love the south that were not born in the south. but,the south is the most hated region of the u.s.a it's still cool to hate white people from the south, no reason or apology is necessary. but don't try this with a so called minority group from the south.or any other part of the USA.thanks to hollywood and our little commie friends
Whoa Whoa, speaking as a black man I know that there's a sort of double standard for blacks, but they can work both ways for all races and we still see that today. Please stick to topic and leave that discussion on Stormfront.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 10:51 AM
 
301 posts, read 1,267,217 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowimsouthern View Post
over 55% of the kids in the us are non white do you think they care about what we're taking about ???
I'm not sure where you were going with this statement.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 12:49 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,063,505 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iúile View Post

I'd say the best way to differentiate between the Midwest and anywhere else is to mention Cornhole. If people look at you like just said something dirty, you ain't in the Midwest.
LOL, have lived 6 years in the South as a teenager, I gotta agree! (and I lived in SOUTH Florida, which many on this forum disavow as Southern! As a bonus of S FL's Southern roots and hispanic transformation, I can also tell you the Spanish form of that vulgarity if you like, which I also learned as a teenager in Miami! )
 
Old 05-29-2007, 12:54 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,063,505 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi100 View Post
I think it matters on what the people living there think. Most people that live in Missouri, don't consider the state southern. But there are a lot of people in Missouri, that consider themselves southern & consider SOME parts of Missouri southern.

When I was there, some parts of Missouri would mock how other people in other parts talk & act.
Remember the Simpsons episode that parodied Tom Sawyer? Bart (as Tom) was floating down the Mississippi on his raft and passed a sign that said "Now Leaving Missouri". Immediately after was another sign that said "Now Entering Missouruh".
 
Old 05-29-2007, 12:59 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,063,505 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
The hot, humid summers are more in line with the South than the rest of the Midwest. There was a Waffle House and Sonic at virtually every exit. And both Springfield and Rolla could have been anywhere throughout the Upland South after stopping through.

.
And how 'bout all them MO pick'em-up trucks with the Rebel flag on the front bumper?
 
Old 05-29-2007, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Nashville
81 posts, read 297,106 times
Reputation: 51
^^It's interesting that you mention that because Hollywood does tend to portray Southerners in a negative light. The stereotypes are wrong and the majority of Southerners, whether lifelong or transplanted, are in no way similar to what is depicted on TV.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 03:10 PM
 
134 posts, read 401,748 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
LOL, have lived 6 years in the South as a teenager, I gotta agree! (and I lived in SOUTH Florida, which many on this forum disavow as Southern! As a bonus of S FL's Southern roots and hispanic transformation, I can also tell you the Spanish form of that vulgarity if you like, which I also learned as a teenager in Miami! )
Northerners I know living in central and south Florida do not consider those parts of Florida southern. In many areas, northern transplants are the majority of the population. I lived in Palm Coast for two years and picked up a Jersey accent.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,455 posts, read 7,307,740 times
Reputation: 1410
agree with you....but for the record, chicago does NOT have waffle houses and I love waffle houses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultAlias View Post
First of all, it's DefaultAlias®.

Second of all, it goes both ways. I am not convinced that Southern Missouri is not Dixie. It might not be as Dixie as Mississippi, but it certaintly isn't Midwestern.

Ajf you honestly believe everything that I'm saying is false. Of course you aren't obligated to believe me but THE FACTS DO NOT LIE.

Missouri has much hotter summers compared to northern Illinois and central Indiana. Whereas a typical summer day in Chi and Indy might be 85 degrees and 50% humidity, it's usually 91 degrees and 60% humidity in St. Louis. Wanna know what the average high temperature in Tupelo, Mississippi is during the summer? 91. Look it up on weather.gov if you don't believe me. Indianapolis has not officially had a 100 degree day since 1988, when I first moved there. Has St. Louis gone 20 years without a 100+ day? Absolutely not. I wouldn't be surprised if they've had one already this year!

Missouri is completely lacking sweet tea? LOL. I've seen sweet tea on the menu when I stopped at a Waffle House in Rolla. I eat at Nashville Waffle Houses regularly and not all of them have sweet tea, although most do. And Indianapolis and Chicago both have Waffle Houses, but no sweet tea to be found. I'm pretty sure you can walk into a Miami Waffle House and get sweet tea there.

I'll agree that southeast Missoura is more dixified than southwest Missouri, but both are still fairly Dixie nonetheless.

St. Louis might be Catholic and "liberal", but it represents only a very tiny fraction of Missouri. Baptists dominate throughout ALL of Missouri. Missouri is a fairly conservative state but that is irrelevant because northern states can be conservative like their southern counterparts: see Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio

Ajf if you take a look at this dialect map you will clearly see that region 17, SOUTH MIDLAND dialect, encroaches along the southern half of Missouri. There's even a small region in extreme southern Missouri with Ozark influences. Now tell me that's Midwestern.

See? This map agrees too:

And yet another:
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