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Old 07-17-2007, 04:02 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,899,356 times
Reputation: 660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
WOW. You think Virginia can even be considered a Mid-Atlantic state?
Where should I start... Richmond, Virginia was the capitol of the Confederacy and two famous Confederate Generals were from Virginia (Robert E. Lee and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson). Virginia started the South with Jamestown being the first permanent English settlement in the "New World." Virginia imported the first slaves from Africa in the early 1600's, long before any other Southern state (territory then). Planting of Tobacco started in Virginia and tobacco is the southern "green gold." Forget about cotton. Tobacco is the Southern cash crop and was first planted in VIRGINIA, (the sweeter caribbean Nicotiana Tabacum found by John Rolfe) in 1612, and with that, the institution of slavery began to flourish from then on. And the largest tobacco company in the United is headquartered in Virginia, Philip Morris USA and Virginia is, was, and will always be an integral part of the south. R.J. Reynolds is headquartered in North Carolina (which was part of Virginia). I, being a devout Virginian, covet my state's heritage.

Umm..no. I never said that actually, assuming you were talking to me. I said WEST Virginia, not Virginia. Virginia is a Southern state. Mid-Atlantic I think belongs to Maryland and Delaware and West Virginia is often included as well, though it is not along the Eastern seaboard.

 
Old 07-17-2007, 04:13 PM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,405 times
Reputation: 17
ajf131, I never quoted you now did I?

So I was talking to everyone on this forum who said that

and as for Maryland, and Delaware, and West Virginia:

In West Virginia there are coal mines and rednecks. It should not even be counted as a state, since it was once part of Virginia. Virginians go to West VA to gamble because our fine state prohibits gambling (except for lottery tickets, from which the revenue helps to fund schools, for the educated Virginians)... no casinos. The West Virginian Yankees broke away from our state because they wanted to be nursed ny the Union.

Well, Maryland... hmm... reminds me of Liberals, Democrats, and Left-Wingers.

And delaware... yeah... nothing there.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Richmond
1,489 posts, read 8,121,488 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang34 View Post
Yes:
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
North Carolina
South Carolina
Tennesee
Kentucky
Arkansas

Not:
Virginia
West Virginia
Texas
Florida
Why do you include Kentucky as the South but not Virginia? Virginia is Southern as Kentucky, if not more. And Kentucky wasnt even in the Confederacy. Virginia was the Capital.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:08 AM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,405 times
Reputation: 17
Default Virginia Is A Southern State

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasinger View Post
Why do you include Kentucky as the South but not Virginia? Virginia is Southern as Kentucky, if not more. And Kentucky wasnt even in the Confederacy. Virginia was the Capital.
Mustang34 is the dumbest ass on this forum. Richmond, VA, former capital of the Confederacy. Kentucky is a border state, along with Maryland. Virginia IS the south. Robert E. Lee and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:38 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,899,356 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
Mustang34 is the dumbest ass on this forum. Richmond, VA, former capital of the Confederacy. Kentucky is a border state, along with Maryland. Virginia IS the south. Robert E. Lee and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.
Kentucky seemed pretty Southern to me when I visited there except for basically the Cincinnati and Ashland parts of it. there really is not anything Midwestern or Northern to it. In fact, Kentucky has often been referred to as Virginia's daughter..it essentially was once part of the Virginia territory. The majority of people there speak with a Southern accent, the state's industry and agriculture are distinctively Southern, the climate is about the same as Virginia's in most areas, the culture is UNQUESTIONABLY southern, the demographics are Southern, it lost black population during the Great Migration, the ancestry is predominantly U.K....I'd say you've got the ingredients for a Southern state. And for border states, generally what they were before and during the Civil War had nothing to do with what they were after. Kentucky is a Southern state. Maryland and West Virginia are not IMO. West Virginia is a mish-mash of all sorts and Maryland is really sort of the same thing although I definitely think it is more of a Northeastern state today than a Southern one. Delaware is definitely Northeastern I'd say. Kentucky may not be as Southern as Virginia per se but it is still an overall Southern state. Kentucky "joined the Confederacy after the Civil War" pretty much.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 07:22 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,107,086 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I grew up in Texas and we called soda, soda. I never heard of people referring to soda as coke until I came on the internet. Also, all the big cities of Texas call it soda too.

As a fellow native Texan, my own experience is that most in the state call it "coke". Although, yes, there is something to that in many of the larger cities, it is probably less common, relatively speaking, than elsewhere (probably due in part at least to the influence of migrating northerners). Here is an interesting site and map on the topic. And if one defines "The South" by where coke is the common generic term for soft drink, then it pretty well follows my own definition -- in terms of whole states -- of the 11 Old Confederate states plus Kentucky.

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

http://popvssoda.com:2998/stats/ALL.html

As to the major topic, about the only thing that is certain is that no one is ever going to totally agree on which states are the South! Again though, my own are the ones mentioned above, and I think that the map Louisville posted (which he and I both had a large hand in shaping...to toot a horn here! LOL) along with the explanations and figures, are about the most accurate there is so far as how most folks and sources view and define the region.

Naturally, being a native Texan, my home state is of particular interest in this realm. I once wrote a little piece on the subject and, for anyone who gives a two-cent stamp, here is the link for those who might want to read it :

Texas and the Deep South - Randy Hill
 
Old 07-19-2007, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,627 posts, read 27,037,620 times
Reputation: 9576
Yeah, I seen that map. But from what I heard in the big cities, at least Oak Cliff in Dallas to East Austin, I heard soda much much more in Texas. I guess you're right. It's based on experience. Because I never heard people call it coke.

But Texas is a southern state. Nobody can deny that the eastern part of the state is very southern. However, is the state deep south? NO. Only 5-6states qualify for that term and that's Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and South Carolina and maybe North Carolina. Texas is a transition state like Virginia in that you are simply entering the west as soon as you get farther away from Interstate 35.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Deep In The Heat Of Texas
2,639 posts, read 2,457,468 times
Reputation: 700
Here is a link to a map of the Deep South.

An Outline of American Geography - Map 7 (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/geography/map7.htm - broken link)
 
Old 07-19-2007, 10:31 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,107,086 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Yeah, I seen that map. But from what I heard in the big cities, at least Oak Cliff in Dallas to East Austin, I heard soda much much more in Texas. I guess you're right. It's based on experience. Because I never heard people call it coke.

But Texas is a southern state. Nobody can deny that the eastern part of the state is very southern. However, is the state deep south? NO. Only 5-6states qualify for that term and that's Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and South Carolina and maybe North Carolina. Texas is a transition state like Virginia in that you are simply entering the west as soon as you get farther away from Interstate 35.
Interesting comments, Spade. You know? I wonder too if vis a vis the use of "soda" and "coke" as a generic label for soft drink, if there is not a certain socio-demographic component to it as well (whether it be Texas or the South in general). For instance, you mentioned Oak Cliff and East Austin. I am a school teacher (don't hold that against me! LOL) and a former aide of mine is a black man, and he and I -- we still visit and talk quite a bit -- have discussed this same page and topic before. He told me HIS experience was that "soda" was the prevailing term in his own growing up years and among most blacks. But that from white people, he admitted "coke" was dominant.
I don't know and I am sure not suggesting our own observations are the norm...just a thought there.

So far as the other parts of your post? Yes, I pretty much agree with how you define the "Deep South." And also that Texas is indeed, in many ways, a "transition" state between South and West. The problem with our home state is that it is so large that, as a whole, it is hard to catagorize it. As has been said, it IS "A Whole 'Nother Country." (and WAS, at one time! LOL).

But anyway, taking it's seperate parts, East Texas, if carved off to stand alone, would be a typical Deep South state. It is still, travelling west to east, where the Deep South begins (I'd say somewhere between Dallas and Tyler). North and Central Texas were settled mainly by migrants from the Upper South (Tennessee in particular), and those areas too are essentially at least as Southern as most of Arkansas.

FAR West Texas (ala' Transpecos El Paso) and deep south Texas (starting around San Antonio) are pretty much, nowdays, more akin to the true Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona. The UPPER parts of West Texas (as in Lubbock, Abilene, Odessa, etc) are the puzzler. The area was originally settled by folks from the older South states after the "Civil War" (although I call it the War Between the States, at least! LOL), and even though it VERY much differers in topography from the traditional South, there many ways where Southern culture still dominates (Southern Baptist Church affiliation, voting patterns, speech, etc). And most west Texans, when surveyed, chose "South" over "West" as their regional affiliation.

For that reason, I can't quite go along that I-35 is where the South ends and the West begins (even though, like the Mason-Dixon line, it has a nice ring to it! LOL).

I don't know if the book is still in print or not, but one of the BEST books ever done on the subject, was Raymond Gastil's "Cultural Regions of the United States." In it, (if I recall correctly, as it has been quite a while since I read it) he divided the United States into four or so MAJOR regions. South, West, Midwest, and Northeast. Within EACH of those, he sub-divided into many of seperate parts.

ALL of Texas (with the exception of trans-pecos) was, correctly, historically, demographically, and culturally, with the South. The interesting thing though, was the sub-division, in which he put most of Texas (East Texas was "Lower South') into a region he labeled "Western South".

This to me is just about the most accurate description I have ever heard or read for the part of Texas west of I-35 to the New Mexico border, and north of a roughly San Antonio/El Paso line. Essentially Southern in terms of settlement and all things related, it nonetheless has characteristics which offset it from the "Old South" of the antebellum period.

I have rambled long enough for now! LOL Again, Thanks Spade, for your thoughts and observations. We pretty much agree, I think!
 
Old 07-19-2007, 10:54 AM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,405 times
Reputation: 17
I won't mess with Texas
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