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Old 07-19-2007, 11:05 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,110,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
I won't mess with Texas

LOL And far be it for ME, in turn, to presume to dispute the "Southerness" of Robert E. Lee's native state! (which I don't, anyway).

 
Old 07-19-2007, 11:09 AM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,501 times
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Good, we are, and always will be part of The South (thats how most Virginians feel, unless you are from Northern Virginia!).
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
697 posts, read 2,024,035 times
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Virginia is a transition state. The northern part of it is part of the D.C. metro, and therefore part of the BosWash megapolis. Past Fredericksberg though, the areas definately feel "southern".

It's actually very interesting, because while other states definately have regional issues and differences that are very easily evident (Northern California vs Southern California, Upstate New York vs New York City, Downstate Illinois vs Chicago), Northern Virginia and Southern Virginia's regional differences can be broadened to national differences (Northern and Southern). The only other state I can think of like that would on such a large scale would be Texas with the western part being Southwestern and eastern part being Southern.

If Northern Virginia ever does secede from Virginia, I guess that could be the actual geographic border between the North and South on the east coast. As of right now, you would have to say Maryland.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:37 PM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Virginia is a transition state. The northern part of it is part of the D.C. metro, and therefore part of the BosWash megapolis. Past Fredericksberg though, the areas definately feel "southern".

It's actually very interesting, because while other states definately have regional issues and differences that are very easily evident (Northern California vs Southern California, Upstate New York vs New York City, Downstate Illinois vs Chicago), Northern Virginia and Southern Virginia's regional differences can be broadened to national differences (Northern and Southern). The only other state I can think of like that would on such a large scale would be Texas with the western part being Southwestern and eastern part being Southern.

If Northern Virginia ever does secede from Virginia, I guess that could be the actual geographic border between the North and South on the east coast. As of right now, you would have to say Maryland.
WRONG! Maryland is not southern, it's a border state.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
697 posts, read 2,024,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
WRONG! Maryland is not southern, it's a border state.
I meant the Maryland-Virginia border would have to be considered the boundary. The Potomac River.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 01:06 PM
 
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 181,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
I meant the Maryland-Virginia border would have to be considered the boundary. The Potomac River.
YES! That is true... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/US_map-South_Modern.png (broken link)

the medium red and dark red states are the south (except for kentucky, maybe).
 
Old 07-19-2007, 01:09 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,901,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
WRONG! Maryland is not southern, it's a border state.
The term border state is outdated by almost 200 years now. Maryland IMO is a Northeastern state now. And Kentucky is DEFINITELY a Southern state today. Make no mistake...it is not a border state or a Northern one. West Virginia IMO is the only state remaining which truly is a border state. The rest have either joined the Union or the Confederacy so to speak.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
697 posts, read 2,024,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
The term border state is outdated by almost 200 years now. Maryland IMO is a Northeastern state now. And Kentucky is DEFINITELY a Southern state today. Make no mistake...it is not a border state or a Northern one. West Virginia IMO is the only state remaining which truly is a border state. The rest have either joined the Union or the Confederacy so to speak.
Yes, the year is 2007, not 1861 . The Civil War started 146 years ago. I wasn't living during those times, and neither was anyone else.

Who knows what each state would be like in 2153, in another 146 years? There might not even be a Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, or West Virginia by then.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 01:37 PM
 
301 posts, read 1,266,489 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Lover View Post
YES! That is true... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/US_map-South_Modern.png (broken link)

the medium red and dark red states are the south (except for kentucky, maybe).
Wrong Kentucky is just as if not more Southern than Virginia!

As State's in Dark red almost always included in the South's definition.

State's in light red usually/more than likely included in the South's defintion

Stiped states are sometimes ocassionally included.

John Shelton Reed Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses) Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411) West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses) Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791) West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336) All others less than 6 percent.

UNC-CH surveys reveal where the ‘real’ South lies

This study has been conducted for over a decade by UNC and is still being conductedTexreb mentioned earlier both of us had a hand in creating this map!
 
Old 07-19-2007, 02:39 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,110,365 times
Reputation: 5741
A couple of random thoughts in the "For What It's Worth" department!

1. I side with Louisville on the issue of Kentucky being Southern. True, it did not officially secede in 1861. However, as has been brought up not only on this forum but others, and is very much historically correct, the state cast its lot with the traditional South after the War, in terms of honoring the memory of the Confederacy, and other cultural aspects commonly associated with the South.

2. The particulars of those states so indicated on the map of the "Modern South" as "striped" were the REAL problem when Louisville and I, and other editors on Wikipedia FINALLY decided how to "color" it! I was foursquare against including Delaware at all, and barely accepted Maryland. BUT...after a lot of discussion, yes, it made sense to label those states as "sometimes/occasionally" considered Southern simply for the fact the U.S. Census Bureau counts them as part of the regional definition. Therefore, yeah, the can't be excluded TOTALLY, in the same way as say, Ohio or Pennsylvania can....

All of a sudden, I want to go partake of some fried catfish!
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