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Old 11-23-2007, 05:06 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,112,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveit_x3 View Post
Almost every state has suburbs, cities, and rural areas. Just because a state has SOME suburbs and cities doesn't mean it can't be southern. There is actually non such thing as Completely southern. Every state has its own version of Southern...thats just in my opinion
Very true..and I think if anything at all has emerged as a common denominator of all the many threads on this topic (where/what/how/why) of the South, it IS that there is NEVER going to be a complete consenus!

I am NOT sure who first said it, but I always liked the "quote" that "There are many Souths..."

The Confederate South? The 11 states which officially and absolutely seceded (and Kentucky was said to have joined up later!) The ones that have an absolute claim to being called "Dixie." That is MY South!

Then there is the South of country music and/or blues music. The South of where kudzu grows, or where black-eyed peas are traditional on New Years Day. Or where catfish and BBQ joints are prominently listed in the yellow pages!

Moonlight and magnolias...

Anyway, y'all probably get the point!

 
Old 11-23-2007, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,462,318 times
Reputation: 3800
The 'South' is a state of mind; more than anything else.

In many peoples' eyes; parts of Pennsylvania are culturally Southern outside of Philly and Pittsburgh despite it being tagged as a Yankee state.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 07:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
The 'South' is a state of mind; more than anything else.

In many peoples' eyes; parts of Pennsylvania are culturally Southern outside of Philly and Pittsburgh despite it being tagged as a Yankee state.
Now I will probably get a bunch of crap for saying this, but I am from Pennsylvania and I agree! PA is one wierd state. It has a border with Canada, in Lake Erie, and a border with Maryland, Delaware and West Virginia, three "border" states. The Mason-Dixon line separates PA from MD. People eat grits in the Pittsburgh area. I think it is really more Appalachian than southern.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills
129 posts, read 419,643 times
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I guess I have an inclusive, "big South" (not the athletic conference) viewpoint. I include Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia and Maryland, and all the states "within" that belt, for a total of sixteen Southern states.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
1,230 posts, read 2,840,283 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post

I am NOT sure who first said it, but I always liked the "quote" that "There are many Souths..."

The Confederate South? The 11 states which officially and absolutely seceded (and Kentucky was said to have joined up later!) The ones that have an absolute claim to being called "Dixie." That is MY South!

Then there is the South of country music and/or blues music. The South of where kudzu grows, or where black-eyed peas are traditional on New Years Day. Or where catfish and BBQ joints are prominently listed in the yellow pages!

Moonlight and magnolias...

Anyway, y'all probably get the point!
I would have to agree with that.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills
129 posts, read 419,643 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
The Confederate South? The 11 states which officially and absolutely seceded (and Kentucky was said to have joined up later!) The ones that have an absolute claim to being called "Dixie." That is MY South!
There are the eleven officially seceded states. Then there are Missouri and Kentucky, which never officially seceded, but actually had dual representation in both the US and CS congresses, and provisional state governments operating in sympathy with the South. Men from both these states served in Confederate armies.

Then there is Maryland, which voted overwhelmingly for Southern candidates (Breckenridge and Bell) in the 1860 election, and unquestionably would have seceded, except that federal troops, on Lincoln's orders, occupied Maryland's cities and imprisoned Maryland's legislators. The very first blood spilled in the war was when Massachusetts troops (ironically echoing the Boston Massacre) killed Southern-sympathizing Baltimore civilians who confronted them in the streets of that city. All this happened even before all of the eleven states has completed their process of secession; Maryland was unfortunate enough to be a small state on the very edge of the South. Even so, many Maryland men went south to join Southern armies in Virginia and elsewhere. Little Maryland, while under occupation, actually had more men in the field on the Southern side than did Missouri, Kentucky, or the official Confederate state of Florida.

Then there is Oklahoma. At the time of the War, Oklahoma was not a state, but Indian territory, and inhabited primarily by members of the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Chippewa and Seminole nations. These five are sometimes known as the Five Civilized Tribes. They were allies of the Confederacy (indeed, the only official allies the South ever had), and they are the five red stars that appear on the "Cherokee Braves" version of the Confederate flag. All Southerners should honor the memory of these warriors.

Finally, there is the problem of West Virginia, whose duly elected representatives took part in the overall Virginia legislative session which led to Virginia's secession; many of them opposed the measure, but it cannot be said that they did not have a voice in that proceeding. Then, acting on more constitutionally dubious grounds, meetings were held among only the northwestern legislators who supported the Union, and the move was undertaken to secede the northwestern counties from the state. As I say, a good case can be made that these men had less legal right, under the state laws they themselves had helped shape, to leave Virginia than Virginia had to leave the Union. Even more troubling to me is the disenfranchisement of Southern sympathizers and Confederate veterans during and for years after the War's end. Still, the principle of self-determination should be a strong one, regardless of legalisms. West Virginia has made its own way as a state, and that is to the good. In the big picture, on grounds of overall history and culture, I still count it Southern.

Last edited by spark240; 11-24-2007 at 12:07 AM..
 
Old 11-24-2007, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills
129 posts, read 419,643 times
Reputation: 64
Let me just add that I love the South. I love the Southern states, each and every one of them. There are the strands of shared culture and history among them, which should be treasured, and there are the things that make each one unique. I love the passion that folks from different states have about both their state's claim to Southernness, and its distinctiveness from every other state. This sense of history, or place, of pride, this is what makes the South special. Beautiful!
 
Old 11-24-2007, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,462,318 times
Reputation: 3800
As for genetic ties to the 'South'; my maternal grandmother's heritage is strongly based out of Orange, Va.

I am 99.9% sure that several direct ancestors fought for the Confederacy------if Ancestry.com is is accurate. Although; the surnames of many of my people listed were as described to me by my bio mother 30+ years ago.
 
Old 11-24-2007, 03:54 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,902,786 times
Reputation: 660
The one thing I am certain of is that Missouri is not a Southern state. Yes, it had Southern sympathizers. But they were the minority as far as the Civil War was concerned...its economy is not Southern, its culture is not really that Southern, Southern accents are not common in the state, its economy is Midwestern, its climate is not Southern...except for it having slavery, there is no argument to say it is the South. It didn't behave like a Southern state after the Civil War, etc. Having lived in this state my whole life and been to almost every corner of it, I can say with absolute certainty that most of it just doesn't meet the definition of Southern. It has far more in common with the Midwest. Kentucky is different because its agriculture is Southern, Confederates controlled the state after the Civil War, its demographics fit in with the South, its climate is more Southern than Midwestern, and Southern accents dominate the vast majority of the state. West Virginia was pretty much on the side of the Confederacy, and its demographics and other characteristics without a doubt correspond to the South. Maryland after the Civil War clearly was not a Southern state. Today it has more in common with the Northeast. Oklahoma I don't consider Southern because it is tied to many different regions. My official definition of the South: Texas, although it can also be part of the Southwest, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, lower 2/3 of West Virginia.
 
Old 11-24-2007, 04:49 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,112,011 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
The one thing I am certain of is that Missouri is not a Southern state.
*observing with a grin* Yes, ajf, you have pretty much made it clear you don't consider Missouri southern! (I agree, by the way )

Quote:
My official definition of the South: Texas, although it can also be part of the Southwest, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, lower 2/3 of West Virginia.
I can go along with this!
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