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Old 12-01-2007, 09:58 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059

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TexasReb, it seems we agree that the average Joe and Jane were (and still are) more concerned about their "way of life" than anything else. The slave owners were certainly concerned about being able to continue to do so. The "common guys" in north and south were concerned about putting food on the table. The pols were concerned about getting re-elected.

 
Old 12-01-2007, 10:22 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,113,590 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
TexasReb, it seems we agree that the average Joe and Jane were (and still are) more concerned about their "way of life" than anything else. The slave owners were certainly concerned about being able to continue to do so. The "common guys" in north and south were concerned about putting food on the table. The pols were concerned about getting re-elected.
LOL Yes, we can for sure agree about the pols!

And on the other things too, in general. I DO however want to note for the record that the slave trade itself was a purely northern commodity. Not a single slave ship was ever registered out of a Southern port. I just want to throw in that fact as a counter point.
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidewater50 View Post
StuyTownRefugee:

Your maps lost all of their credibility when they put arkansas and louisiana in the southwest region. And you know what else? For your U.S. Fish and Wildlife maps, the states are put into these regions because of distance from regional offices...I'm willing to bet the northeast's regional office is in dc and the southeasts regional office is in atlanta, since MOST of virginia is closer to DC, they put us in the northeast region. And on your pictures of the east coast from space, do you not see the huge gap between dc and richmond and then between richmond and hampton roads. These cities are not connected to the northeastern megalopolis at all. They grew on their own.


At that resolution Fredericksburg (relatively large) isn't even visible. Adjust your resolution.

It doesn't matter though, in your opinion all the light stats everywhere are emitted by plantations and all is static.


The part of about your last statement was covered long back about longer term intrinsic development here and elsewhere on threads.

By the way state and political lines are so artificial they are permeable but I'll bet you see them.
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymomof3 View Post
The biggest problem I have with that map is that Louisiana and Arkansas are placed in the SW.

It may be due to the "Oil Belt". Are you from Va?
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidewater50 View Post
Oh, and another thing, deciduous forests cover most of the eastern us, not just the northeast. They're a band of southern pines growing from eastern virginia, through eastern nc, sc, and west to texas. And of course, swamps are found everywhere, but they're not cypress swamps. Cypress trees grow strictly in the south.
You're being deliberately obtuse.
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
I guess I am a traditionalist in this debate. To me, anything south of the Mason-Dixon line and west through Texas is the South, and always will be. All of it may not be the Confederate South, but I think it can handle the Northern immigrants and others and still remain the South. Is New England still New England with all the new immigrants? Or the Mid-west? The South of 1860 exists nowhere, so should we say the South does not exist at all because of this?

"Always will be" is what the native americans thought.

No Va is largely Northern India, Middle East, or North Asia or Mexico or North Africa. You'd be hard pressed to find hardly any caucasians within the Beltway of No VA and need to go much further away from DC.

These aren't "Northerners" moving into No VA so much, nor other parts of Va.
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Actually, I think credibility was lost (the maps, that is) when New Mexico was put in the same "region" as Louisiana and Arkansas...and even Texas. I wrote something explanatory on the other thread about Southern culture, but point is, New Mexico has no business being grouped with the others so defined. But as you seem to say, maps such as this are based more on "geographical convenience" related to a specific governmental purpose, rather than anything connected with history, culture, traditions, etc...the things which truly define a "region."
R U aware so folks here don't want to group TX in the South at all, I suppose there is a lot of credibility to that?.

<<related to a specific governmental purpose, rather than anything connected with history, culture, traditions, etc...the things which truly define a "region>>

Of course history, culture, traditions, etc...the things which truly define a "region" are all very political and governmentally 'connected'. e.g. celebrating Thanksgiving or 4th of July.

Now I think you're one of the more reasonable avatars here so I'm going to get back with some real relevant info about the VA classifs again and ( why it always is such a prized and coveted as well as possessive by many, a piece of real estate).

It's going to be this way for quite a while the major differences in opinion and beliefs.

Later
 
Old 12-01-2007, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 604,268 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidewater50 View Post
StuyTownRefugee:

Your maps lost all of their credibility when they put arkansas and louisiana in the southwest region. And you know what else? For your U.S. Fish and Wildlife maps, the states are put into these regions because of distance from regional offices...I'm willing to bet the northeast's regional office is in dc and the southeasts regional office is in atlanta, since MOST of virginia is closer to DC, they put us in the northeast region. And on your pictures of the east coast from space, do you not see the huge gap between dc and richmond and then between richmond and hampton roads. These cities are not connected to the northeastern megalopolis at all. They grew on their own.


You guys are really over inflating the southern traits, you lose much credibility with the small cotton and shipment part of the state's economy and small cypress presences in extreme border areas. I suppose cotton makes Buffalo 'southern' bc it ships it and is involved with its processing and distribution. It's not involved with anything else in terms of production, shipment, processing and distribution?

The governor does not run the state with that in mind, about just parts of the NC border or any of Southside from Richmond.

You're greatly blowing up a few items to make the state look entirely one way. Ports are Ports and some cotton is grown in one section on the SE border w NC.

Most people from that part of Va come from NC anyway, their families and all and many first born in VA from NC.


Last edited by StuyTownRefugee; 12-01-2007 at 10:32 PM..
 
Old 12-02-2007, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
6,749 posts, read 19,952,023 times
Reputation: 2129
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuyTownRefugee View Post
It may be due to the "Oil Belt". Are you from Va?
No hun, Kentucky.
 
Old 12-02-2007, 10:16 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,113,590 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuyTownRefugee View Post
R U aware so folks here don't want to group TX in the South at all, I suppose there is a lot of credibility to that?.
I am not quite sure what you are saying, Stu...but I if you mean that there are some who do not include Texas in the South, then I agree that indeed there are some who don't. Like with Virginia, Florida, etc. I think the reasons for doing so are wrong, but that is what the whole topic of this thread is about. We can only present our own cases as to what states are "Southern" and let the chips and reasoning fall where they may!

Quote:
Of course history, culture, traditions, etc...the things which truly define a "region" are all very political and governmentally 'connected'. e.g. celebrating Thanksgiving or 4th of July.
Point acknowleged, but not exactly the same thing. For instance, the National Weather Service Office regional maps include New Mexico, which is hardly a Southern state. But exclude the Carolinas which are.

Now, perhaps in terms of climate/conditions/etc there is good reason for that. But point being, to present a map of the NWS as indicitive of what constitues the South, is extremely irrelevant. And much less so than a map of the Old Confederacy which in fact does reflect certain aspects which carry on to this day.

Quote:
Now I think you're one of the more reasonable avatars here
Thank you and ditto!
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