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Wrong Kentucky is just as if not more Southern than Virginia!
As State's in Dark red almost always included in the South's definition.
State's in light red usually/more than likely included in the South's defintion
Stiped states are sometimes ocassionally included.
John Shelton Reed Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses) Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411) West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)
Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses) Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791) West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336) All others less than 6 percent.
This study has been conducted for over a decade by UNC and is still being conductedTexreb mentioned earlier both of us had a hand in creating this map!
I never said Kentucky wasn't Southern, but its not more Southern than Virginia. To me, its more like a cross between the Midwest and Southern Appalachia.
It also wasn't in the Confederacy. Despite what anybody says, the Confederacy is a big factor in which states are Southern because its a historical factor and it ties the region together. No northern states were in the Confederacy.
To me the South is the 11 former states of the Confederacy.
I never said Kentucky wasn't Southern, but its not more Southern than Virginia. To me, its more like a cross between the Midwest and Southern Appalachia.
Only the Eastern Kentucky area is Appalachian, while the far Western parts of the state are often considered to be apart of the Lowland South (mississipi Delta Area).
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It also wasn't in the Confederacy. Despite what anybody says, the Confederacy is a big factor in which states are Southern because its a historical factor and it ties the region together. No northern states were in the Confederacy.
While Kentucky did not join the Confederacy it does have a star on the Confederate flag represent it (the center star) and it was said to have succeeded after the War. While the Civil war is a major historical factor it is not "the" historical factors that determines a state's Southerness. As there were many things before and after the war which have that are determining factors.
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To me the South is the 11 former states of the Confederacy.
Just just said that Kentucky was Southern
Another thing you've seen from the Southern Focus study I posted Kentucky has more residents Identify as Southerners then Virginia, despite Kentucky not having succeeded.
The term border state is outdated by almost 200 years now. Maryland IMO is a Northeastern state now. And Kentucky is DEFINITELY a Southern state today. Make no mistake...it is not a border state or a Northern one. West Virginia IMO is the only state remaining which truly is a border state. The rest have either joined the Union or the Confederacy so to speak.
You do have many Marylanders that still associate themselves with the south. It's just that most Marylanders live in heavily urbanized areas from the DC area to Annapolis to the Baltimore. I would say it's a border state heavily leaning towards the northeast.
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
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No, Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line and was not part of the CSA, hence the name "Border State." Yes, and Some Marylanders are Southern... Port Tobacco, La Plata, and St. Mary's county residents consider themselves Southern... they had slaves prior to and during the War of Northern Aggression.
For people including Texas, I never encounter Texans referring themselves as a "South state", but the "Southwest". It might sound ridiculous.
But there's quite a difference I think. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc., does not have the large Mexican culture that Texas does. I think that makes a big difference between us.
I had a brother-n-law's family from the northeast who thought that everyone here owns a horse , even in the large cities. I understand rural areas, but large cities?
It's apart of the state isn't? Why it might be common knowledge that Northern Va is Northeastern, It is also common knowledge that Nothern Kentucky is Midwestern!
Location: I wonder... hmmmmm... maybe... I live somewhere in that pleasant state of VA, Mother of Presidents.
178 posts, read 228,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisvilleslugger
It's apart of the state isn't? Why it might be common knowledge that Northern Va is Northeastern, It is also common knowledge that Nothern Kentucky is Midwestern!
Northern Kentucky and Southern Kentucky are not part of the south... BORDER STATES they are.
Northern Kentucky and Southern Kentucky are not part of the south... BORDER STATES they are.
Well here is a repost to reaffirm my stance that Kentucky and Louisville are Southern!
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Now honestly, I do see why you’d think it has a Midwestern under-culture, but it is a major city. The same argument, I assure you, can be made of New Orleans, Atlanta, Charleston. Major cities have major immigration, and people from all over the country--and the world--make their homes there. Sad as it is, it has shown its effects on the cities, but I assure you, at Louisville’s core, is the South. It has even been said that during the darkest days of the war, Louisville had more “Johnny Rebs” and “Southern Belles” than the entire state of Mississippi. As an historian, I might be inclined to believe that. Having mentioned Southern Belles, you’d be well advised to note Sallie Ward was a Louisvillian. Her portrait is often named “The Southern Belle.” That is because she was THE Southern Belle in the ante-bellum days. More Scarlett O’Hara than Scarlett herself! Literally, she was considered THE belle of the South! None of that is even mentioning that, as someone else noted, Louisville is a river city, giving it all the more reason to intermingle cultures. Nonetheless, to the trained ear, one can hear the traces of Southern accents in downtown Louisville, and thick as molasses accents among some of the older residence. Step outside the city limits--you can no longer judge the South by its cities. Anyone who lives in a Southern city will note the changes over the years. They’ve become melting pots, good or bad! Oh, and what is Louisville’s nickname? You don’t know? Let me tell you, “Gateway to the South!” That’s a take on its old days as a river port, and its being a Southern city, noted for two great Southern pastimes, horseracing and bourbon!
From a cultural geography perspective the usual northmost line of Southern cultural influences in the lower Midwest is US 40, so it might be more accurate to consider southern Indiana and Illinois more southern than it would to consider Kentucky Midwestern. The Southern Focus study referenced earlier seems to confim the Southern character of Kentucky. About the only part of the state that could be considered Midwestern are the three northern counties across the river from Cincinnati.
Louisville is probably a bit more unusual in that it has aspects that are not traditionally associated with the South. In terms of historical aspects the city was settled by Virginians, and then recieved a large immigration from Germany and Ireland. Unlike other Midwestern cities it did not experience input from the second immigration from southern and eastern Europe to any signifigant degree, and lacks any historical "ethnic neighborhoods" that characterize true Midwestern cities like Dayton or Fort Wayne or South Bend. Louisville has experienced in-migration from the rural areas of central and western Kentucky (the areas directly south and west of the city), which has reinforced its southern character in modern times, which reinforced the southern character of the local working-class.
Louisville was and is industrial, but that is not necessarily a marker of being a Midwestern anomaly in a southern region, as numerous southern cities have an industrial base, such as the textile cities of the Carolina Piedmont. Louisvilles industial development was part of the New South, and marketed to the South, and its leading newspaper editor of the postbellum era, Henry Watterson, was considered an expontent of the New South ideology. During the postbellum era the L&N Railroad, headquarted in Lousiville, was a major carrier into the deep South, terminating at Pensacola and New Orleans, and painted its locomotives "confederate gray".
Another aspect of Louisville that gives it a historical and modern Southern character is the experience of slavery. Louisville did have a large slave population (one of the largest), and slaves were used in industry (44 worked for one company), building trades, steamboat trade, and as household servants. During the Jim Crow era Louisville did segrate blacks and whites into seperate school systems, and event tried to enact ordnances restricting blacks to certain neighborghoods (found unconstitutional by the USSC). One did not see this type of legal Jim Crow elsewhere in the Midwest. Some of the residential patterns of black settlement also paralled other urban south centers. In Midwestern cities blacks settled in older inner city neighborhoods, but in Louisville there was a tendancy for blacks to settle on the urban periphery, originally in Smoketown, but later in neighborhoods like Little Africa (later Park Duvalle) and in the Wet Woods (the Newburgh Road area). This pattern is similar to that identified by Harold Rabinowitz in his "Race Relations in the Urban South", where freed slaves formed settlements on the edges of Southern cities (which is quite visible in Lexington, too).
The aspect of religion as a indicator of southern cultural character is also key as Louisville is a center of the Southern Baptist faith, with a large seminary in town. Baptists vie with Catholics as the largest denomination in the city. You will not find a Midwestern city ouside Missouri (one county in Kansas city) that has a signifigant Baptist population. Louisville however does.
The Bible Belt
If it's worth mentioning Richmond Va (former capitol of the Confederacy) has a larger Catholic population than Louisville. While Texas has always had a large Hispanic Catholic population, the cities of San Antonio and Galveston, Texas were hot beds for German Catholics. It should also be noted that Louisville German and Irish in migration was to a MUCH less degree than St.Louis and Cincinnati, so much less that Louisville's blacks will be the largest ancestry in the city within 2 or 3 years.
Louisville like every other Southern city lost black population during the first black migration North. This is quite the opposite in St.Louis and Cincinnati, in which this played a major role in the building of the cities we see today. St.Louis especially was a hotbed for black migrants, which was the complete opposite for Louisville, being steeped in Southern culture and idealology.
Great Migration resources (http://www.uic.edu/educ/bctpi/greatmigration2/dataviewer/usa/USAleftcolumn.html - broken link)
Here are two excellent sources showing how Louisville and the South in general held the highest concentration of blacks until the migration.
The physical character of the city is more southern to me. The common vernacular housing of the older pre-WWII city is not like that in other Midwestern cities, where one sees the use of one or two story houses or cottages (sometimes duplex apartments) with the gable end facing the street. Louisville uses the very Southern shotgun house, as well as other forms that are appear to be unique to Louisville, such as a variation on the foursquare. For post WWII building, there was the continued popularity of neoclassical or colonial revival in developer housing. Even the local version of the ranch house sometimes uses wrought iron on the front porches as a sort of generic reference to "New Orleans/River City".
All of the following sources label Louisville and Kentucky as Southern in terms of dialect.
In terms of pop culture, there is that popularity of deep fried fish and seafood, and hush puppies, in local fast food chains. Fairly banal but you dont get hush puppies up north. Ultimatly this is all anecdotal, but from my time in Louisville, compared to Chicago, Louisville is quite southern to me. I really do not see the Midwestern aspect in the city. The place seems to identify more with the South, and feel more southern, than even close-by Midwestern cities like Cincinnati and Indianapolis.
Here is a cultural map created by this nations most reknown geographer D.W. Meinig. He draws the Southern boudary line through Southern the Southern ares of Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio, So obviously Louisville is safely tucked below that line (not saying that it doesn't have Midwestern influence). If you notice however the only Midwestern cities that remotely compare to Louisville (Cincinnati and St.Louis) are litterally on top of the Southern cultural boundary, obviously suggesting that those cities are heavily influenced by the South. Again I'm aware that Louisville has Midwestern influence, however it does not top the Southern influence.
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The Bible Belt
Southern 
