Which states do you consider The South? (taxes, price)

[GEORGETOWN1]

We would all be much better off if the rest of the state looked and acted like Northern Virginia.

The rest of the state is like looking at a bunch of clones............LOL

They all think and act the same way............And they tend to be arrogant and stuck in their ways.........

They're real good at that holier than thou act.

[DC's Finest]

If it wasn't for NOVA, the rest of Virginia would be like Mississippi. NOVA carries the state and gives VA a since of eloquence. Tysons Corner has more office space than Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas and more retail space than anywhere on the east coast outside of NYC. Those hillbillies in the rest of the state want to relive the civil war.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by florida southerner 3

All the Southern States should resecede. I am a fullblown, died-in-the-wool, diehard secessionist! The USA is getting out of control and our government is taking the whole nation with it! Does what happened to the Roman Empire ring a bell with anybody??? The South, one of the last bastions of positive morality and downhome morals is rapidly dying! Forget discussing which states are Southern or not. Just resecede and it will be definite! Things would be better today if the CSA was left alone and allowed to exist and join the ranks of the nations of Earth. Abra-damn Stinkoln, the liar, propoganda, state government trumper par excellance destroyed state's rights and started the Federal government on it's way to growing into a gluttonous, monstrous, pork infested bureaucratic behemoth that takes over any time she pleases nowadays. We're only a few steps away from martial law and a dictatorship! SECEDE NOW, DIXIE, AND OTHER STATES JOIN BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

And go back to what? There is a reason I am happy that the South lost the war. The North was not much better than the South, but the South was trying to hold on to keeping slaves. It wasn't the only issue. I will agree that states rights and economics had to do with how the war got started, but all of that was intertwined with slavery. Don't tell that the slaves were happy to pick cotton and be "taken care of". I'm not buying it one bit. A person should be free and be considered human and not treated like cattle. The reason the South wanted to secede is so it could continue its efforts to profit off of free labor, involuntary labor in fact.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

And go back to what? There is a reason I am happy that the South lost the war. The North was not much better than the South

At least you acknowledge this fact. Many don't

but the South was trying to hold on to keeping slaves. It wasn't the only issue. I will agree that states rights and economics had to do with how the war got started, but all of that was intertwined with slavery.

Again, it is to your credit (in my humble opinion! that certain things in this assertion acknowledge historical reality (that slavery was not the only issue). With that said though? Let's look at a flip side. What was the North (i.e. the states which kept the name "United States" by default) trying to "hold on to?" There MUST have been something, to justify sending thousands of men down to invade the South. What was it? To free the slaves?

Intermission time. I hope everyone will read this one: Slavery in the North

Don't tell that the slaves were happy to pick cotton and be "taken care of". I'm not buying it one bit. A person should be free and be considered human and not treated like cattle.

WHERE was such a thing SAID? You are righteously refuting an assertion that was never made! I could just as easily say....in fact? I merrily will: Don't tell me that blacks were happy that they were barred from residency in some of the northern states.

The reason the South wanted to secede is so it could continue its efforts to profit off of free labor, involuntary labor in fact.

So why didn't the North just let this horrid netherworld go in peace? Y'all could have had your utopia (whites, that is...because no blacks could live up there) and the South could have gone our own way.

Such a paradox, don't you think?

[Katarina Witt]

Don't tell that the slaves were happy to pick cotton and be "taken care of".

WHERE was such a thing SAID? You are righteously refuting an assertion that was never made!

The first statement has been made many times in defense of slavery.

[Bobilee]

I guess I am a traditionalist in this debate. To me, anything south of the Mason-Dixon line and west through Texas is the South, and always will be. All of it may not be the Confederate South, but I think it can handle the Northern immigrants and others and still remain the South. Is New England still New England with all the new immigrants? Or the Mid-west? The South of 1860 exists nowhere, so should we say the South does not exist at all because of this?

[StuyTownRefugee]

Originally Posted by DC's Finest

If it wasn't for NOVA, the rest of Virginia would be like Mississippi. NOVA carries the state and gives VA a since of eloquence. Tysons Corner has more office space than Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas and more retail space than anywhere on the east coast outside of NYC. Those hillbillies in the rest of the state want to relive the civil war.

Well DC, that's not exactly true at all, see below that actually the coast is oriented to not only DC but into NYC. Much of Va's population lives in the "Light" so to speak. This brings the state's urban clusters tied into the NE Megalopolis and into the light. They've worked quite well at forming the crescent themselves.

Northeastern Seaboard of the US includes Virginia's fairly large Eastern metro areas.


[SIZE=+1]STS-98 Shuttle Mission Imagery[/SIZE]
high res (2.6 M) low res (111 K)
STS098-382-0014 (7-20 February 2001) City Lights of the Northeastern Seaboard of the U.S. were captured with a 35mm camera by one of the STS-98 astronauts aboard the Space Shuttle Atlantis. The nighttime scene shows the bright lights of several major cities that span a distance from Connecticut (left middle) to states south of Virginia (right middle). Lights from both very large urban areas as well as smaller towns and cities are visible. The largest cluster of brightness emanates from the greater New York metropolitan area (left center) and then a series of bright spots progress southwesterly to include Philadelphia (PA), Baltimore (MD), Washington (D.C.), Richmond (VA), and finally ending with the Newport News/ Norfolk (VA) lights (top center). Many of the major ground transportation arteries can be seen as radial, linear features that radiate outward from the central business districts of the cities. Even the lights of smaller cities such as Allentown, Reading, Lancaster, York, and Harrisburg (PA) are visible (bottom center).






Click NOAA image for larger view of night lights before the blackout in the Northeastern USA taken Aug. 13, 2003, at 9:21 p.m. EDT. Click here for higher resolution version, which is a large file. [Click here for 2160 x 1620 version.] NOAA processed the data from the Defense Meteorological Satellite Program. Please credit NOAA/DMSP

[StuyTownRefugee]

The view from Space of the NE corridor.

(Click NOAA image for larger view of a cloud-free composite of USA night lights taken from Oct. 1, 1994, to March 31, 1995. NOAA processed the data taken by the Defense Meteorological Defense Program. Click here for higher resolution version, which is a large file. Please credit NOAA/DMSP.)

The clear night light space view outlines the Northeastern Corridor of the and is due to complete the megalopolis crescent that's been growing a long time from SE Va. There are darker spots within all of it the corridor but and is imminent to join up with the upper reaches of the NE Corridor/Megalopolis.

Virginians did this themselves. You get the picture.


Night Lights satellite image about 20 hours before the blackout taken Aug. 13, 2003]NOAA POSTS IMAGES ONLINE OF NORTHEAST BLACKOUT

[StuyTownRefugee]

Originally Posted by GEORGETOWN1

The transplants in NOVA are what keeps this state running......LOL

I'm just stating the facts. And I was born and raised in Virginia, thank you.

Northern Virginia just isn't part of the South. Culturally or any other way. It really does add to the state's character. Without Northern Virginia, the commonwealth would be a lot more boring.

I somewhat agree but thought you might be interested in this.


Northeastern Seaboard of the US includes Virginia's fairly large Eastern metro areas included in NE designation.

The Virginians have been doing this themselves from HR to NY. Appears most lights are oriented toward NY on the coast even down in VA, by air it's not so far how things travel.


[SIZE=+1]STS-98 Shuttle Mission Imagery[/SIZE]
high res (2.6 M) low res (111 K)
STS098-382-0014 (7-20 February 2001) City Lights of the Northeastern Seaboard of the U.S. were captured with a 35mm camera by one of the STS-98 astronauts aboard the Space Shuttle Atlantis. The nighttime scene shows the bright lights of several major cities that span a distance from Connecticut (left middle) to states south of Virginia (right middle). Lights from both very large urban areas as well as smaller towns and cities are visible. The largest cluster of brightness emanates from the greater New York metropolitan area (left center) and then a series of bright spots progress southwesterly to include Philadelphia (PA), Baltimore (MD), Washington (D.C.), Richmond (VA), and finally ending with the Newport News/ Norfolk (VA) lights (top center). Many of the major ground transportation arteries can be seen as radial, linear features that radiate outward from the central business districts of the cities. Even the lights of smaller cities such as Allentown, Reading, Lancaster, York, and Harrisburg (PA) are visible (bottom center).






Click NOAA image for larger view of night lights before the blackout in the Northeastern USA taken Aug. 13, 2003, at 9:21 p.m. EDT. Click here for higher resolution version, which is a large file. [Click here for 2160 x 1620 version.] NOAA processed the data from the Defense Meteorological Satellite Program. Please credit NOAA/DMSP

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 2160x1620 and weights 1867KB.

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[ajf131]

Originally Posted by GEORGETOWN1

The transplants in NOVA are what keeps this state running......LOL

I'm just stating the facts. And I was born and raised in Virginia, thank you.

Northern Virginia just isn't part of the South. Culturally or any other way. It really does add to the state's character. Without Northern Virginia, the commonwealth would be a lot more boring.

I agree that Northern Virginia around the D.C. area doesn't count as part of the South. It is like the Bootheel of Missouri...the part of Missouri is without a doubt Southern and very different from the rest of the state. With Virginia, the rest of the state is Southern. Whatever StuytownRefugee's agenda is here I don't know, but I felt like I was unquestionably in the South when I was basically below I-66 in Virginia. How you could claim that Richmond is not a Southern city is beyond me...I detected Southern accents through at least 3/4 of Virginia. Geographically, I would agree that Virginia is part of the Mid-Atlantic. Culturally, it is DEFINITELY not. Why are you so resistant to Virginia being Southern? I have a girlfriend who lives in Wytheville, and she would tell you straight up how Southern it is there, and she's right too. Virginia belongs with Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee. My personal belief is that Maryland and D.C. these days belongs with Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. I don't care what the Mason-Dixon line says as far as history says...the simple fact is that it is not an accurate definition today as being the Pennsylvania-Maryland border. Yes Virginia borders a state with the capital in it, but the simple truth is that most of it lies south of the capital. There is simply no way to claim Virginia is even a border state given all of its history. All you have is Northern Virginia, a small insignificant patch that is different from the rest of the state. Northern Virginia in my opinion should be seceded to Maryland. Virginia is, has always been, and always will be a Southern state. As another thread points out, Virginia was the birthplace of Southern culture, and the very first Southern state. Plus, it was the heart of the Confederacy. It's economy, landscape, demographics, and politics (historically anyway), are unquestionably all Southern. And its climate leans more Southern as well...as far as I am aware most of it is in the humid subtropical zone. So aside from Northerners moving there, it is still very much a Southern state. Just quit while you're ahead.