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So St. Louis is Southern? LOL. You don't know what you're talking about. My father is from Joplin, Missouri and he never identified with the South...no accent, anything. Missouri is mostly Midwestern. It doesn't become Southern until you get to around Springfield. You see no Southern dialect or sweet tea until you are almost out of the state. Dixie Missouri is not for the most part, sorry. When somebody can convince me that Sikeston, Missouri is just like all of Southern Missouri then I will admit missouri is southern. Until then, nope...it's mostly Midwestern. Even Cape Gireardeau is half-midwestern, half-southern. the south is much less dominant in Missouri than people make it out to be.
I never said St. Louis is southern. In reality it has more of an "eastern big city" flavor compared with KC, which identifies more with the Great Plains. I have been to Joplin and did notice that quite a few people featured southern accents. I agree that sweet tea is not very prevelant at all across most of Missouri. Sweet tea is a much bigger deal in Kentucky.
If Missouri cannot be considered entirely Midwestern, St. Louis and Kansas City at least can be. ST. Louis is a rust-belt city with a rust-belt feel....its life is NOT laid back like the South, there aren't any southern accents here, the cuisine is Midwestern...and how Central Missouri is more like the South than the Midwest I do not know. It doesn't have true Southern culture, it doesn't have southern speech patterns....since when has the Midwest been identical everywhere you go in terms of patterns? I will be damned if Missouri is a Southern state. Most people I know these days would laugh at that statement. It's just so obvious it's not even worth pointing out that it's not Southern today. This Missourian has spoken.
I never said St. Louis is southern. In reality it has more of an "eastern big city" flavor compared with KC, which identifies more with the Great Plains. I have been to Joplin and did notice that quite a few people featured southern accents. I agree that sweet tea is not very prevelant at all across most of Missouri. Sweet tea is a much bigger deal in Kentucky.
Well if people in Joplin had Southern accents, I guess that doesn't surprise me too much considered it's almost in Arkansas. But my father grew up there along with his whole family and you'd never guess they did by the way they speak today. So I guess maybe it makes sense to call Joplin half and half.
I never said St. Louis is southern. In reality it has more of an "eastern big city" flavor compared with KC, which identifies more with the Great Plains. I have been to Joplin and did notice that quite a few people featured southern accents. I agree that sweet tea is not very prevelant at all across most of Missouri. Sweet tea is a much bigger deal in Kentucky.
correct. i agree there. Hell, you will southern accents and sweet tea in Indiana all the way up to around Indianapolis. Along I-70 in Cloverdale, Indiana, I stopped at several restaurants which all had sweet tea there. In that respect Indiana is more Southern than Missouri! Southern Illinois well below St. Louis has lots of sweet tea and southern accents. Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio all have some Southernisms just like Missouri, but like Missouri they do not dominate the majority of the states. Missouri I just don't think passes for anywhere near half-Southern these days. IT may be different from the Midwest in some ways but that does not make it Southern. It is to me a Midwestern state that exhibits its own entity as well as Midwestern ones, just like any other Midwestern state. Anyways...I've spoken. I know not everybody will agree with me but I speak from my experiences throughout the whole state.
If Missouri cannot be considered entirely Midwestern, St. Louis and Kansas City at least can be. ST. Louis is a rust-belt city with a rust-belt feel....its life is NOT laid back like the South, there aren't any southern accents here, the cuisine is Midwestern...and how Central Missouri is more like the South than the Midwest I do not know. It doesn't have true Southern culture, it doesn't have southern speech patterns....since when has the Midwest been identical everywhere you go in terms of patterns? I will be damned if Missouri is a Southern state. Most people I know these days would laugh at that statement. It's just so obvious it's not even worth pointing out that it's not Southern today. This Missourian has spoken.
I will still say that Missouri is not part of the corn and soybean belt that makes up the Midwest "core" The Midwest core consists of most of Iowa, central and northern portions of Illinois, southern Wisconsin, and central and northern Indiana. The climate of most of Missouri is also MUCH warmer than any state that is located in the Midwest. Wisconsin and Iowa get far heavier amounts of snow and much colder temperatures in the winter than Missouri does. I will agree that southern foods are not very prevelant in Missouri, but I have observed southern speech patterns in Missouri. Another trend that I have seen is that Missouri is now becoming more conservative politically(compared to the more recent past), and does have some bible-belt influences as well. In terms of foods I guess you do not think that hickory smoked BBQ is not southern? I do agree that "greens" and "sweet-tea" are not common in Missouri.
Another interesting note is that the furthest south portions of Indiana and Ohio are still located farther north in latitude compared to southern Missouri.
I agree with most of what you are saying but Missouri still lacks many of the characteristics that make it a Midwest state. Missouri has a lot of acerage in forest and a lot of hilly terrain in the central and southern portions of the state. Also, Missouri is not generally considered part of the corn and soybean belt either, unless you include the far northern portions of the state. The overall climate of Missouri is also much warmer than any of the states that are considered to be in the Midwest region. Also, their are many people living in rural areas in Missouri, which compares favorably to other southern states. In the Midwest and Plains the majority of the rural counties have declining populations, as more people seek job opportunities in larger urban areas. I have been to Missouri many times and still find the majority of the people in central and southern Missouri have more much more in common with the South than with the Midwest. I guess we will have differing opinions regarding Missouri.
Overall climate yes I will agree. But Missouri's overall climate is also much colder than any of the South. It snows everywhere in missouri. Hell, Springfield, Missouri gets at least 15 inches of snow every year as does Joplin. Ask my father. Missouri is a unique state climatologically because of its central location, but it has the potential to be as cold as Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio (south of the northern areas). Summer-wise it is much hotter like the south. Missouri meets many more qualifications as a Midwestern state than it does a Southern one by today's standards.
I will still say that Missouri is not part of the corn and soybean belt that makes up the Midwest "core" The Midwest core consists of most of Iowa, central and northern portions of Illinois, southern Wisconsin, and central and northern Indiana. The climate of most of Missouri is also MUCH warmer than any state that is located in the Midwest. Wisconsin and Iowa get far heavier amounts of snow and much colder temperatures in the winter than Missouri does. I will agree that southern foods are not very prevelant in Missouri, but I have observed southern speech patterns in Missouri. Another trend that I have seen is that Missouri is now becoming more conservative politically(compared to the more recent past), and does have some bible-belt influences as well. In terms of foods I guess you do not think that hickory smoked BBQ is not southern? I do agree that "greens" and "sweet-tea" are not common in Missouri.
Another interesting note is that the furthest south portions of Indiana and Ohio are still located farther north in latitude compared to southern Missouri.
Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio also have southern speech patterns in their southernmost portions. I will reiiterate that anything southern in Missouri is confined to the southern parts of it. And as far as corn goes, Missouri is half in that!!! Nothing about Missouri these days cries the pure South until you're almost out of the state. This is a pointless discussion. I will just stick to my opinions and you stick to your's...i should've known this when we talk about Missouri...nobody will ever agree on Missouri fully. just too much controversial history behind it.
Missouri does have its two big metros, which include Kansas City and Saint Louis, but many people live in rural counties in Missouri compared with the Midwest. What is interesting is that in the majority of the Plains and Midwest the rural counties are quickly losing population and many of the younger people are moving to the larger metro areas. Many counties in Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, and Indiana have declining rural populations. However, in Missouri many of the rural counties continue to gain population, even when their are not many jobs. According to the Census Data the rural counties in Missouri also have higher percentages of residents living in poverty than states like Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. When it comes to steady and gaining populations in its rural counties, Missouri is more similar to other states in the mid-south.
Missouri does have its two big metros, which include Kansas City and Saint Louis, but many people live in rural counties in Missouri compared with the Midwest. What is interesting is that in the majority of the Plains and Midwest the rural counties are quickly losing population and many of the younger people are moving to the larger metro areas. Many counties in Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, and Indiana have declining rural populations. However, in Missouri many of the rural counties continue to gain population, even when their are not many jobs. According to the Census Data the rural counties in Missouri also have higher percentages of residents living in poverty than states like Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. When it comes to steady and gaining populations in its rural counties, Missouri is more similar to other states in the mid-south.
You can present with me with those statistics. Whether they are true or not, I don't care. The point is, Missouri comes much closer to being a midwestern state than a Southern state, and if Missouri can't be midwestern, than neither can most of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, none of Kansas. the U.S. census bureau places it in the Midwest. If you are trying to make a case for Missouri being more Southern than Midwestern, you just can't. Saying Missouri is southern is like saying Kentucky is midwestern...it just isn't true for the most part.
Rural Missouri has higher percentages of poverty in rural counties than the Midwest does in terms of total percentages. Many of these rural counties have stagnant or even gaining populations without many jobs. This is similar trend that is observed in other areas of the mid-south. The percentages are from 2003 as that is the most recent data available.
Source: quickfacts.census.gov/qfd
Iowa:
Decatur County 14.4% of residents living below poverty (college town county)
(highest percentage of any county in Iowa)
Wisconsin:
Milwaukee County 16.2% of residents living below poverty (urban county)
(Highest percentage by far of any county in Wisconsin)
Kansas:
Crawford County 15.2% of residents living below poverty (college town county)
(Highest percentage of any county in Kansas)
Minnesota:
Beltrami County 15.2% of residents living below poverty
(Highest percentage of any county in Minnesota)
Ohio:
Athens County 18.3% of residents living below poverty (college town county)
(Highest percentage of any county in Ohio)
Illinois:
Alexander County 22.2% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
(a couple other rural counties in the high teens in far southern Illinois near the Mississippi River)
Missouri:
Pemiscot County 23.1% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Saint Louis County 21.3% of residents living below poverty (urban county)
Shannon County 21.1% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Dunklin County 20.5% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Mississippi County 20.5% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Wayne County 19.9% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Carter County 19.4% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Ripley County 19.1% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Wright County 18.7% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Oregon County 18.5% of residents living below povery (rural county)
Texas County 18.4% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Washington County 18.3% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Reynolds County 18.1% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Iron County 17.6% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
Douglas County 17.0% of residents living below poverty (rural county)
(Compared to other states in the Midwest core, Missouri has far more rural counties with higher percentages of residents living below poverty.) The following counties I typed in were a good sampling, but I could have listed many others.
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Missouri
