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Old 05-26-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,571,893 times
Reputation: 3235

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
This was my stab at it, nationally, anyway, a couple of years ago:
This map is interesting to say the least. You have NEW YORK, TEXAS, and FLORIDA in the MIDWEST?!?!?! You might as well have included Hawaii. These areas have NOTHING in common. What does Dallas, TX have in common with Syracuse, NY, or Naples, FL? Also, what do any of these cities have in common with Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Omaha, Minneapolis, and other cities in the actual Midwest. The word "Midwest" has no meaning if you include some of the areas that you highlighted in this map.

Dallas is decidedly southern and Texan. There is no appreciable difference between Dallas, Houston, and Austin. All are Southern, Texas cities. Nothing Midwestern about it. Upstate New York is Northeastern. Florida can be called Southern, Caribbean, Tropical, or just "Florida", but it is anything but Midwestern. When I think of the Midwest, ocean, palm trees, and hurricanes are about the last things that come to mind. Yes, there are a lot of Midwestern transplants there, but there are just as many in California and Arizona.

I consider the Great Plains as part of the Midwest. KS, IA, MO, ND, NE, and SD are all similar, western Midwest states. The Mid Atlantic should not include Florida. I agree with the rest of your map, especially the South extending into southern OH, IN, and IL. I would consider the Appalachians as part of the South, and exclude NY and PA from them. Maybe divide into northern and southern Appalachians.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:57 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,055,227 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
This map is interesting to say the least. You have NEW YORK, TEXAS, and FLORIDA in the MIDWEST?!?!?! You might as well have included Hawaii. These areas have NOTHING in common. What does Dallas, TX have in common with Syracuse, NY, or Naples, FL? Also, what do any of these cities have in common with Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Omaha, Minneapolis, and other cities in the actual Midwest. The word "Midwest" has no meaning if you include some of the areas that you highlighted in this map.

Dallas is decidedly southern and Texan. There is no appreciable difference between Dallas, Houston, and Austin. All are Southern, Texas cities. Nothing Midwestern about it. Upstate New York is Northeastern. Florida can be called Southern, Caribbean, Tropical, or just "Florida", but it is anything but Midwestern. When I think of the Midwest, ocean, palm trees, and hurricanes are about the last things that come to mind. Yes, there are a lot of Midwestern transplants there, but there are just as many in California and Arizona.

I consider the Great Plains as part of the Midwest. KS, IA, MO, ND, NE, and SD are all similar, western Midwest states. The Mid Atlantic should not include Florida. I agree with the rest of your map, especially the South extending into southern OH, IN, and IL. I would consider the Appalachians as part of the South, and exclude NY and PA from them. Maybe divide into northern and southern Appalachians.
Mike's inclusion of SW FL into the Midwest gave me pause, also. But I think he was grouping by where the people in the area are from. Ever been to SW FL, from Tampa/St Pete down to Naples? It is full of people from OH, MI, IL and IN! In the winter, you almost see more license plates from these states than from FL! It's a subtrpoical Midwest!
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:28 PM
 
2,359 posts, read 8,189,858 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
What does Dallas, TX have in common with Syracuse, NY, or Naples, FL?
I see your point, but in the actual map Syracuse, NY itself is actually included in the Mid Atlantic region. A couple suburbs of Syracuse on the map are located in the Midwest region though....
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:09 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,913,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
Interesting. I think I would have New England wrap up a little more into Northern NYS rather than extending the "Mid-Atlantic" to the St. Lawrence though. That would make New England border Appalachia, and in truth there is some degree of cultural gradation. The rural sections of northern third of PA, like most of upstate NY west of about ten miles west of the Hudson, and honestly northeast and north-central Ohio, really were settled as an outgrowth of New England, and the old house and barn forms resemble New England more than they do southern PA. Yet rural poverty has spread up the hinterland highland chain at least through the Mohawk Valley. So it's a toss-up as to whether to draw a line roughly paralleling I-80 15 miles to the north (or about where the coal outcrop runs out), and to call the section of Appalachia without coal "New England" due to the familial heritage, and to make that area honorary "swamp Yankees".

I'd also move the Great Valley from Appalachia to Mid-Atlantic, from Harrisburg to at least as far south as Front Royal, or perhaps as far south as Staunton. Areas where the south German-Swiss strain predominates seem more a Mid-Atlantic than Appalachian trait to me.
I see where you are coming from about upstate New York. Mike's map (post #115) has the Finger Lakes area as part of the Midwest and Central NY part of the Mid-Atlantic --- both of which were heavily settled by New Englanders. I am going to take a stab and guess that he looked at the Great Lakes drainage map for his Midwest borders in New York instead of any cultural border.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,639 posts, read 27,073,493 times
Reputation: 9580
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
This map is interesting to say the least. You have NEW YORK, TEXAS, and FLORIDA in the MIDWEST?!?!?! You might as well have included Hawaii. These areas have NOTHING in common. What does Dallas, TX have in common with Syracuse, NY, or Naples, FL? Also, what do any of these cities have in common with Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Omaha, Minneapolis, and other cities in the actual Midwest. The word "Midwest" has no meaning if you include some of the areas that you highlighted in this map.

Dallas is decidedly southern and Texan. There is no appreciable difference between Dallas, Houston, and Austin. All are Southern, Texas cities. Nothing Midwestern about it. Upstate New York is Northeastern. Florida can be called Southern, Caribbean, Tropical, or just "Florida", but it is anything but Midwestern. When I think of the Midwest, ocean, palm trees, and hurricanes are about the last things that come to mind. Yes, there are a lot of Midwestern transplants there, but there are just as many in California and Arizona.

I consider the Great Plains as part of the Midwest. KS, IA, MO, ND, NE, and SD are all similar, western Midwest states. The Mid Atlantic should not include Florida. I agree with the rest of your map, especially the South extending into southern OH, IN, and IL. I would consider the Appalachians as part of the South, and exclude NY and PA from them. Maybe divide into northern and southern Appalachians.

Well I think Dallas has a good bit in common with Kansas City nowadays. Historically no. But now and in the future, yes. Most of the transplants that have moved to the DFW area come from the Great Plains area. It's basically the big city of Big 12 country with no hints of the SEC in there at all unlike Houston.

I've always said that there are two Midwests. The Great Plains midwest and the Great Lakes/Mississippi Valley Midwest. The Great Plains midwest are the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, and sometimes Oklahoma. DFW has many of it's characteristics but still has alot in common with Northern Louisiana and Arkansas.

Houston is Southern/Texan. It has much in common with South Louisiana and New Orleans (as much as they like to disagree. The similarities are there).
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,005 posts, read 2,450,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marya View Post
It seems to. Especially since I've seen states that don't border the ocean at all, like Pennsylvania and Vermont, included in the "East Coast." And I also hear people from Atlantic-bordering Southern states use the terms synonymously.

How do you define the "East Coast"?

East coast usually refers to states bordering the Atlantic Ocean.
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Old 06-02-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,650 posts, read 5,163,027 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeofseasons View Post
East coast usually refers to states bordering the Atlantic Ocean.
Technically, yes. Culturally, no.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: NY
133 posts, read 457,939 times
Reputation: 70
This is part of the problem when people lump all of New York State north of NYC together. Clearly upstate NY is not all the same. Albany is different from Buffalo. People in the Adirondacks have a different dialect than people who live in Rochester. That is why I don't even like to tell people I live "Upstate NY", because it could mean some city that is almost 400 miles away from where I live!

But I have also lived in the midwest and do see a ton of differences between the real midwest and UNY. But I can also see cultural differences between the eastern 2/3 of the state compared to western NY. I have never even heard of "Beef on wyck (spelling?)" until a friend from Rochester offered some.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
Hey Jeromeville, I'm a native of Upstate and have lived in the Midwest for many years. The Midwest IS different than upstate, but not in most of the ways YOU cite LOTS of Catholics in the Midwest, ever been to Chicago or Milwaukeee or St Louis or Dubuque or St Cloud? Religion is a "political force" in the Midwest? How so, and where? LOTS of Germans in upstate, check out c-d's stats for Rochester, Buffalo and lots of smaller cities in the western third of the state. LOTS of Italians and Irish in the Midwest, ever been to Chicago or St Paul or Cleveland or Detroit? Lots of solidly blue counties in the Midwest, too. Ever been to MN's Iron Range or MI's Wayne County, the Twin Cities, Johnson County, IA or Cook County, IL? Midwest mostly flat? How about the Porcupine Mountains, or Southern IL, or MN's Arrowhead, or southern OH, MO's Ozarks, or the Black Hills or the Turtle Mts? Coversely, drive for several hours along the southern shores of Lakes Ontario and Erie in NY and tell me that's not flat! Think Midwesterners all speak with a twang? I challenge you to listen to a native Chicagoan or Milwaukeean and a native Buffalonian and tell me you can tell the difference between their accents. Think Upstate is "mostly Catholic"? Go to any small town in the Finger Lakes region and count how many Catholic churches vs. Protestant churches.

Stop relying on stereotypes and get out there and see what upstate and the Midwest are really like!
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