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I agree with the previous two posters... I am also a Chicagoan also, but I've lived in Denver for three years. It's hardly some dusty, bland little town, Rawlings. Denver is a beautiful and vibrant city that is growing in international importance. We'll be hosting the 2008 National Democratic Convention in August of next year. Real estate prices have been booming in recent years and downtown is under the process of major gentrification. We have the fifth busiest airport in the nation and metro Denver residents contribute more public funds for the arts on a per capita basis than any other city in the nation.
I agree with the previous two posters... I am also a Chicagoan also, but I've lived in Denver for three years. It's hardly some dusty, bland little town, Rawlings. Denver is a beautiful and vibrant city that is growing in international importance. We'll be hosting the 2008 National Democratic Convention in August of next year. Real estate prices have been booming in recent years and downtown is under the process of major gentrification. We have the fifth busiest airport in the nation and metro Denver residents contribute more public funds for the arts on a per capita basis than any other city in the nation.
I agree! I'm not saying that Denver isn't a swell place. I'm only saying it sure as hell isn't a Dallas or Boston or any other truly WORLD CLASS city.
By the way, I wouldn't play up the DNC 2008 so much. Denver is very late in the game for a political convention--most other similarly sized cities have hosted conventions and the fact that Denver is just now getting one should tell you that we are categorically different from coastal hot spots.
They said the same thing when the all star games, the Summit of the Eight, and other major events came to town. But still Denver couldn't truly 'break out' even then. The DNC will be a week of hellish traffic, bad press, good press, and debate. But it could just as easily be held in Cleveland or Salt Lake. There will be no political or other implications from the convention--it will just be a wild week and then that's it. A snowy Broncos Monday night game is a lot better for the state than a Democrat convention.
I have an opinion of Denver somewhere between the extremes presented on this forum. Yes, I would rank it higher than Cleveland. But . . . Denver is isolated at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. The nearest city of > 1,000,000 is Phoenix, which according to city-data is 650 miles away. I guess that is as the crow flies because it took us two days to drive there (granted with two small children at the time). The isolation makes it important in the intermountain west, but is also very, well, isolating. There are people there who think Denver is soooo extemely sophisticated who have never been much of anywhere else. We lived in Albany NY for a year, then came back to Denver. The same clothes were in the stores in Denver that were in the Albany stores a year earlier. When Krispy Kreme donuts came to Denver, people went wild! This is not my idea of sophistication, and I am from Pittsburgh, another down to earth place.
...Denver is isolated at the foot of the Rocky Mountains.
...The isolation makes it important in the intermountain west, but is also very, well, isolating.
I think you just hit on the crux of the issue. Some of us are rating cities higher because they're isolated and important to a large geographical area, others are using that as a negative in ranking their "importance" or whatever it is we're ranking.
What objective criteria could we agree on? I think the "5th busiest airport hub" is important. I don't know other stats one could use for ranking Denver, so I'm only guessing that when people from other countries think about the USA, they think of Denver LONG before they think about Cleveland. Denver's proximity to some of the most famous ski areas in the world isn't anything to take lightly. And Boulder has to be included as part of the metro area. It's a hub of ideas and has one of the top universities.
Another issue with isolation vs. proximity is that a place like Baltimore suffers due to the fact that people there have such easy access to all the cultural amenities (like the Smithsonian) that are in DC. I cannot fathom anyone from China, Germany, India or Namibia thinking of visiting Baltimore before they'd think of Denver, unless they have relatives in B-more. This isn't an insult to B-more, it's just a happenstance of location, reputation and proximity.
By the way, I wouldn't play up the DNC 2008 so much. Denver is very late in the game for a political convention--most other similarly sized cities have hosted conventions and the fact that Denver is just now getting one should tell you that we are categorically different from coastal hot spots.
They said the same thing when the all star games, the Summit of the Eight, and other major events came to town. But still Denver couldn't truly 'break out' even then. The DNC will be a week of hellish traffic, bad press, good press, and debate. But it could just as easily be held in Cleveland or Salt Lake. There will be no political or other implications from the convention--it will just be a wild week and then that's it. A snowy Broncos Monday night game is a lot better for the state than a Democrat convention.
Out of 35 cities that bid for the convention, the choices were eventually narrowed down to Denver and NYC. Denver won the bid. I don't want to get into a political argument, but I imagine that a big reason why the DNC is coming to Denver is because of the changing political landscape in Colorado and the west. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the state was so generous to Democrats in the last election, with Democrats taking control of the state senate, state house, one more congressional seat, a U.S. Senate seat, the state governors office and both chambers of the state legislature. As a result, Colorado is one of the states included in the new purple west, making it a good place for the DNC.
Last edited by 19Caroline72; 05-03-2007 at 02:23 PM..
1. New York
2. LA
3. SF-Oakland-San Jose
4. Chicago
5. Washington-Baltimore
6. Seattle
7. Atlanta
8. Houston
9. Miami
10. Dallas
My list is based on considerations of present and future status and doesn't consider the historical dominance of cities like Philly, Detroit, Boston, etc. The "original ranking of world-class cities" listing looks outdated to me, and I agree with ajf that it's a total joke to rank a place like Columbus above St. Louis. Perhaps the list-maker is enamored of the Ohio State Buckeyes? As a Longhorn fan I find this highly offensive, LOL...
I think I'll stick to the official list. I've realized that it's actually very accurate and up to date. These people had facts and something that's called "evidence of world importance" when they made this list, so I think they know what they're talking about. They didn't just pull this stuff out of the air.
Everybody will have their own opinions, but unless you have been to each and every city and did some strenuous research, I'm sorry, but you all's lists will be flawed.
It's incorrect to put Atlanta before Houston; Miami before Dallas; or Seattle, Baltimore, and Miami before Boston.
It's not a popularity list, it's a list of worldwide impact.
Quote:
12 points
New York 10 points
Los Angeles
Chicago 9 points
San Francisco 6 points
Houston
Washington, D.C.
Dallas (I would imagine with Fort Worth included)
Boston 4 points
Atlanta
Miami
Minneapolis 3 points
Philadelphia 2 points
Seattle
Detroit
Cleveland 1 point
Baltimore
Columbus
Kansas City
Richmond
I think you just hit on the crux of the issue. Some of us are rating cities higher because they're isolated and important to a large geographical area, others are using that as a negative in ranking their "importance" or whatever it is we're ranking.
What objective criteria could we agree on? I think the "5th busiest airport hub" is important. I don't know other stats one could use for ranking Denver, so I'm only guessing that when people from other countries think about the USA, they think of Denver LONG before they think about Cleveland. Denver's proximity to some of the most famous ski areas in the world isn't anything to take lightly. And Boulder has to be included as part of the metro area. It's a hub of ideas and has one of the top universities.
Another issue with isolation vs. proximity is that a place like Baltimore suffers due to the fact that people there have such easy access to all the cultural amenities (like the Smithsonian) that are in DC. I cannot fathom anyone from China, Germany, India or Namibia thinking of visiting Baltimore before they'd think of Denver, unless they have relatives in B-more. This isn't an insult to B-more, it's just a happenstance of location, reputation and proximity.
As I've noted before, two of the most prominent cities that people around the world think of then visiting the United States are Las Vegas and Orlando. I'm not saying that those cities have the "cultural impact" and sophistication that we've been talking about here, but they are always in the top 10 (if not top 5) cities in terms of international visitors. When it comes to average person from abroad, their knowledge of the U.S. largely extends to NYC, DC, California and Florida with maybe some thoughts of vacation spots in Las Vegas and Hawaii. Even my hometown of Chicago is "under the radar" in terms of international perception (the only two things that people generally know about are Michael Jordan and random TV shows such as "ER") and the rest of the Midwest is considered to be the hinterlands - at least that's the perception I've gathered when I've traveled overseas.
That's just my perception in my encounters both abroad and with expats here. They might have heard of Chicago, but know very little about its particulars (which is a big reason why Mayor Daley has pushed for the 2016 Olympics in order to provide a real international showcase). Detroit might exist in their minds as the place that used to make cars, but forget about them having any knowledge whatsoever about Cleveland, St. Louis or the rest of the Midwest - it might as well not exist. The South (outside of Florida) and Texas are simply perceived as the Bible Belt that put W. into office, so that's a bad thing, in their opinion (FYI - I'm saying this as a Republican that voted for Bush twice).
Meanwhile, the majority of the international community seems to have very clearly defined pictures in their minds of New York City, California, Washington DC and Florida. Once again, this isn't about the actual impact that those areas have in the global economy (Chicago would be right in line after NYC and LA on that front) but more about the face value average-person-off-of-the-street perceptions of those that are not from the U.S.
As a follow-up to my last comment, think of what the average American off of the street thinks of England. The average American probably has a pretty clear picture in his or her mind of what London would be like, even if he or she has never been there. However, what does the average American think of Manchester, which is the second largest city in England? Unless they've actually been there, you'd be hard-pressed to find any Americans that have any concept of what Manchester is like, if they even know that it exists at all. That's kind of what I'm getting at with my comment that the international perception of the U.S. is pretty much confined to NYC, California, DC and Florida.
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