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Old 08-08-2009, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Western Hoosierland
18,264 posts, read 6,901,616 times
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What is it, that makes the North "Northern"??

What criteria is it that would make nobody exclude Indiana for Illinois while contradicting the status of New York, Maine or Connecticut?

As a Hoosier who doesn't only yield to studies of the North for terms of advocacy and considers them to be just as Northern as someone from Maine. I have thought of this question for awhile..

Historically speaking, today's "Eastern Midwestern states" or " Great Lake states" have no more merit than does New York or Pennsylvania or any "Northern" state for that matter.

Decades after the Revolutionary and War of 1812 The North was agreed upon of consisting of the colonies above the Mason-Dixon line. The demarcation between what states were "Northern" has taken years and years to distinguish. Indiana and Wisconsin are the North just as equally as New York and Maine.

As the decades have came and gone the definition of "Northern" has certainly taken it's twists and turns and some would say that people who reside in the Megapolis or Northeast United States feel as if they are "true Northerners" and will exclude states which unquestionably belong. For instance Vermont is viewed as unquestionably Northern while Indiana is up on the chopping block.

I've just made notes of things over time and from reading around and learning things and just curious as to Why is it be?

I welcome all to give their insight.

What characterizes the North as being Northern?
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:12 AM
 
118 posts, read 448,397 times
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Being from the south,I think a lotta people here think if your not from here your a northerner.Doesn't matter if your from New York,Iowa,Wyoming,Hawaii, or south Florida.
Some wicked psychology at work LOL.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:13 AM
 
10,630 posts, read 22,651,844 times
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I didn't know anyone questioned Indiana or Wisconsin (as two of your examples) as "Northern." I'm from MN originally, and when I lived for a time in the South people definitely thought of me as from the "North."

I would say that any state in the Union during the Civil War is "Northern." I suppose I think of Oregon and Washington more as Pacific Northwest, if I was going to think of them in a particular category, but if I was thinking only in terms of "Northern" (which would suggest to me that the only other alternative is "Southern" I'd certainly put them in the Northern category.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:19 AM
 
7,304 posts, read 8,920,753 times
Reputation: 8319
Default Without spending ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdude View Post
What is it, that makes the North "Northern"??

What criteria is it that would make nobody exclude Indiana for Illinois while contradicting the status of New York, Maine or Connecticut?

As a Hoosier who doesn't only yield to studies of the North for terms of advocacy and considers them to be just as Northern as someone from Maine. I have thought of this question for awhile..

Historically speaking, today's "Eastern Midwestern states" or " Great Lake states" have no more merit than does New York or Pennsylvania or any "Northern" state for that matter.

Decades after the Revolutionary and War of 1812 The North was agreed upon of consisting of the colonies above the Mason-Dixon line. The demarcation between what states were "Northern" has taken years and years to distinguish. Indiana and Wisconsin are the North just as equally as New York and Maine.

As the decades have came and gone the definition of "Northern" has certainly taken it's twists and turns and some would say that people who reside in the Megapolis or Northeast United States feel as if they are "true Northerners" and will exclude states which unquestionably belong. For instance Vermont is viewed as unquestionably Northern while Indiana is up on the chopping block.

I've just made notes of things over time and from reading around and learning things and just curious as to Why is it be?

I welcome all to give their insight.

What characterizes the North as being Northern?
...too much time, since it's 2 AM here:

"North" includes both the Northeast and the Midwest; Illinois and Minnesota are in the same boat as Maine and Pennsylvania. Some may make distinctions, but I never have. You could make references to latitudinal lines, the Civil War, even weather to some degree, in order to distinguish North from South, and although these barometers aren't perfect, they don't have to be, either.

Indiana is part of the North, too. It may be more conservative than most northern states, but that certainly doesn't exclude it.

Distinguishing factors of North could include colder weather, more (sometimes MUCH more) snow, more urban areas, more ethnic white European descendents, corn and dairy farming instead of tobacco, rice and cotton farming, more industrialization, the obvious Civil War reference, etc.

I'll stop here, because of the time.

BTW, is this query a demand for "equal time"?
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,462 posts, read 8,166,381 times
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The Northern States are North, because of the 13th colonies that came to the US. So before there were only the North and the South. Then it was the Midwest and then the West.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:47 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,123,799 times
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I'm not sure there is one unified "The North" still I'll use what I remember from Civil War history et alia. (Some of this might be dated)

The agriculture is generally not cash crops like cotton or tobacco. Instead it's things like corn, wheat, rye, etc. (Don't misunderstand what I mean here. They are farming for profit "cash" too, but they tended to be making "cash" on crops they can eat)

The "white non-Hispanic" population has a significant Catholic or Lutheran minority. Or even a Catholic+Lutheran majority. This comes from greater immigration, particularly from non-English speaking nations. The South received significant German immigration, but not like the North. Immigration from Scandinavia, Poland, or Italy tended to be significantly less in the South. (Louisiana makes this not entirely work as it received many Italian immigrants as well as having a traditional non-English Catholic population)

The history of racial issues is traditionally less black & white, I mean that literally not figuratively. The North received a great deal more Asians than the South and the "Indian Wars" were more a Union affair. Hence "race riots" in the history of a state like Wyoming or Washington could involve burning down the local Chinatown. Although that's really more "The West." Still I'd say ethnic conflicts among non-blacks are of some significance in the North. (Not that white/black conflict is unimportant in Northern history)

The North is more open to utopian or idealistic experimentation. The Transcendentalists were pretty much all Northerners. However various other utopian communes also tended to be Northern not Southern. The Progressive movement I believe was mostly Northern. (The Populist movement had appeal in the South, but was somewhat different) As a "Progressive" Teddy Roosevelt did best in South Dakota, California, Michigan, Minnesota, and Maine. He did the worst in Oklahoma, South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, and Texas. Progressive Robert LaFollette did best in Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, and South Dakota. He did worst in Louisiana, South Carolina, North Carolina, Mississippi, and Tennessee. Progressive Henry Wallace did best in New York, California, North Dakota, Washington, and Montana. They don't seem to have where he did worst.

Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections

The North tends to be more enamored with alcohol, but this is something of a more modern development.

Traditionally the North was more industrial, but that's no longer so true.
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:04 AM
 
Location: The land of Chicago
867 posts, read 1,783,390 times
Reputation: 1121
Thumbs up Couldn't have said it better myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
...too much time, since it's 2 AM here:

"North" includes both the Northeast and the Midwest; Illinois and Minnesota are in the same boat as Maine and Pennsylvania. Some may make distinctions, but I never have. You could make references to latitudinal lines, the Civil War, even weather to some degree, in order to distinguish North from South, and although these barometers aren't perfect, they don't have to be, either.

Indiana is part of the North, too. It may be more conservative than most northern states, but that certainly doesn't exclude it.

Distinguishing factors of North could include colder weather, more (sometimes MUCH more) snow, more urban areas, more ethnic white European descendents, corn and dairy farming instead of tobacco, rice and cotton farming, more industrialization, the obvious Civil War reference, etc.

I'll stop here, because of the time.

BTW, is this query a demand for "equal time"?
this about sums it up
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:37 AM
 
5,631 posts, read 8,700,820 times
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Definitely the latitude.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Western Hoosierland
18,264 posts, read 6,901,616 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjive View Post
Being from the south,I think a lotta people here think if your not from here your a northerner.Doesn't matter if your from New York,Iowa,Wyoming,Hawaii, or south Florida.
Some wicked psychology at work LOL.
Sounds pretty wicked to me!..lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
...too much time, since it's 2 AM here:

"North" includes both the Northeast and the Midwest; Illinois and Minnesota are in the same boat as Maine and Pennsylvania. Some may make distinctions, but I never have. You could make references to latitudinal lines, the Civil War, even weather to some degree, in order to distinguish North from South, and although these barometers aren't perfect, they don't have to be, either.

Indiana is part of the North, too. It may be more conservative than most northern states, but that certainly doesn't exclude it.

Distinguishing factors of North could include colder weather, more (sometimes MUCH more) snow, more urban areas, more ethnic white European descendents, corn and dairy farming instead of tobacco, rice and cotton farming, more industrialization, the obvious Civil War reference, etc.

I'll stop here, because of the time.

BTW, is this query a demand for "equal time"?
nope
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: New England & The Maritimes
2,116 posts, read 4,039,665 times
Reputation: 1114
I don't think many "Northerners" identify as such. The North really isn't a cultural region, it's basically just what isn't The South.
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