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Old 09-11-2009, 04:20 PM
 
656 posts, read 888,343 times
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Default Nashville v. Charlotte or even durham area (taxes , potential, the future, migration,etc)

Moved to City vs. City forum

http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/759962-nashville-v-charlotte-even-durham-area.html#post10715914
(post there do avoid duplicates, and people responding on two different posts, viewpoints mentioned/not mentioned on different posts).



A poster recently asked which city in the southeast preferably the Carolina's can be the next Atlanta besides Charlotte.



I notice people are still moving to Tennessee albeit maybe at a slower rate, nashville and even charlotte or not my cup of tea that much, but I love to be informative and gain people's ideas as to what they think of a place, because it could be someone elses cup of tea, including family and friends.

To give you a city-city comparison and why and what you should know, here are a few ideas.

1. Tennessee has no income tax on most income but does tax dividends and interest , however the property taxes around nashville are about the same as Charlotte, there is also no personal property tax in Tennessee. Williamson county has lower taxes, you can talk about Williamson if you like, but its a bit further out than nashville, more on that later.

North Carolina has much higher taxes, although the estate tax may have a large exemption it still has a tax I believe , it has personal property taxes as well

2. Charlotte is a bit more closer to the northeast by driving than say Nashville.

3. Charlotte has received a lot of media attention lately, and the banks in the past have received a lot of attention, although there is more to Charlotte than the banks such as duke energy, nascar, and others banking represents a large part of the Charlotte economy, what are your thoughts on the future.

4. Diversity and influx of people, a lot of people from all over the Us have moved to Charlotte and to durham area, I note durham area is becoming diverse and charlotte to a less extent but diversity doesn't have to be due to race, it can be different people coming from different parts of the country,

So its probably different from Nashville, but immigrants and a lot of people are moving to the Nashville area, 10-20 years from now?

5. Architecture and layout, Charlotte has its skyscrapers and building new ones, Nashville less so although the ATT tower and the signature tower was hyped,

one person commented that the Signature tower even if it brought people downtown he preferred the outside suburbs because Nashville's layout didn't make the downtown area that vibrant due to traffic concerns, roads leading to other places,etc

Others may say suburbs area bit boring.

5. Your thoughts on opinion on these, I note the signature tower has been scaled back, do you think its a great option, it will not be as taller but the developer wanted it to be one of the tallest buildings in the southeast .

6. Tennessee is very much a red state, more red than before, some people have said its very conservative and people are less open, now of course people have their own beliefs and judgments and perception can be a bit different, however in contrast to North Carolina, do you see immigration and even native born Americans moving from Florida and North Carolina changing this soon?

7. North Carolina has become a bluer state, I will withhold a bit of judgment on the favor ability of this , on one hand , its progress towards diversity for some people, sharing values, the right direction, the other however an environment already high taxes, combining the two from independents may say its high taxed without much benefit, a moderate may like it, but scoff at two conflicting scenarios in which it becomes unbalanced.

8. Tennessee is a land locked state, its seems also as if it has more in common with Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana ,Arkansas? is this true, and does being a land locked state have disadvantages such as access to beaches although Charlotte and even Durham is still inland. Some have said North Carolina's advantages are beaches and mountains and not being so much like South Carolina although the two have a lot in common, and in Charlotte right next to each other.

Does this also effect strength of the economy and ports, in your opinion? Even if the above were true with the rest of the South, does Tennessee have more in common with Kentucky then for a better argument?

9. Is Tennessee more laid back than North Carolina, people have commented stores closing early, and what not but people are moving there , asian immigrants too I hear, I note that the politics seem more laid back conservatism, its become a much more conservative and redder state in contrast to NC.

10. Nashville I would argue is the heart of Tennessee or at least , for a better word (even though its in the middle), the main economic area, sure there is memphis but the latter has a lot of issues that make comparison to charlotte or durham a bit less on scale. Cities like Knoxville and Chattanooga are a bit smaller in terms of metro scale and potential (no signature towers there soon or mass migration like the former?), the tri cities are even more to a less extent and have more homogeneity.

11. Do you consider Nashville, to be in the Stroke belt, how about allergies , air, what other disadvantages inland, A lot of magazines have pointed out Tennessee recently as becoming on par with North Carolina in economic development and new businesses.

12. Would you argue you have better business opportunities there, taxes aside, what about the influx of people is it enough to change with 10-20 years or will it take much much longer, access to capital, money in the area, and also note wages in Tennessee are a bit low too.

13. Do you think Tennessee is going to slow, Memphis and a lot of cities still have status quo along with respective counties, Nashville seems like the only place that can be on par with Charlotte, Durham, if not state , getting back to the political environment, politics, immigration, and in country migration, and media attention, how true is this and will it effect business in your opinion.

Is it going slow but not too slow, aka slower than NC but not too slow or is it going at the rate pace but not going to fast, or do you hate the fact that its moving in the wrong direction , slow in wrong way such as immigration and immigrations bringing crime and not enough skilled workforce like other cities, noise pollution, infrastructure not built can influence this opinion based on a city's layout and planning, or becoming more conservative and close minded or not becoming like NC(good/bad?), or going slow but not too fast to keep up with changes and less media hype, and the potential for change is there, or just very slow, in that its slow enough to make the place a little less boring, that's all everyday or to keep a pace.

14. In this debate , besides land locking, I notice tennesee may suffer from memphis being folks from arkansas, mississippi, and such commute to memphis, leaving nashville as an advantage, especially with no state income tax , and shelby county have high tax rates, similar situation in Chattanooga?

15. Post more later, but let's start the interesting conversation shall we. A bit of rambling, but I know.



 
Old 09-12-2009, 03:04 AM
 
1,206 posts, read 1,076,384 times
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Default times, they'r a'changin...

i think charlotte's banking growth will remain low, even after the economy picks up. their market is getting fairly saturated and the city has just about been totally rebuilt, w/ little of a history left as far as old charlotte. durham will be the next growth catalyst for the area for the next 8-10 years. the research triangle will continue to be crucial for that area of the country; however, w/ the expansion of research at uab, and the 4 billion dollar expansion of the memphis baptist research park, triangle at st. jude, 1.5 billion spent w/ another 500,000,000 to be completed, the 365,000,000 current expansion at lebonheur, w/ its economic research forces joined w/ st. jude, boston research foundation, and uthsc. the advanced biocontainment level III and vivarium facilities have already placed memphis in direct competition w/ the nc research coast. actually the power ****s are really going to be become centered more around huntsville, b'ham and memphis. texas-houston will continue its advanced programs.

w/ regard to nashville as a main economic hub for the state, nashville's regional lines are drawn from just columbia up to the clarksville area. everything after that demarcation line is in the memphis region economy. no doubt that vanderbilt and st. thomas are respectable in fields of applied surgical technique ;however, it is not geared to become a biomedical research area---most likely because of the programs in nc, alabama, and memphis. i do believe that nashville and memphis will continue to take and develop large shares of the news media and entertainment market. tourism for both cities will continue to be both strong and critical for their strong economies.

population growth in tn has not been above the average moderate range in the majority during the last ten years. its growth has been steady, but solidly modest. much of metro memphis has been consistently since 2000 misrepresentated. the u.s. census bureau has reported a solid 3.9% metro population gain through november, 2008. currently. metro memphis has approximately over 1.3 million residents in its 8 metro counties. greater memphis region has an estimated 2.2 million residents. urban shelby county currently has an estimated population of 938,943. memphis and its contiguous suburbs has a current population of 1,171, 904.

w/ the current construction of the largest intermodal facility in the u.s., this facility is expected to draw employment of 6000 workers from the counties of fayette, shelby, and marshall. the hybrid car plant construction, set to begin this fall, is expected to employ some 25,000 workers directly, but lead indirectly to an additional workforce of 400,000 individuals. it is reported that the plant will come completely on line in 2011. over 60% of the workers will come from the memphis metropolitan area. river bend development, a 4500 acre mixed development complex, has been approved by the mississippi legislature for memphis metro, tunica county. this development will build over 9000 individual residential and apartment complexes. an entertainment district, hotels, water park, and other amenities are to be included in the development.

in addition to all of these projects, population growth in south memphis has become the fastest growing in the state of mississippi. desoto county is the fastest growing county in mississippi, and on of the 100 fastest growing in the united. the memphis metro has three of the fastest growing counties in the united states. both tunica and marshall counties in mississippi are beginning to show rapid and solid growth areas in their northern areas. the tunica airport, now carrying almost 60,000 passengers last year, is experiencing tremendous growth, which serves primarily casino and executive corporate business into the metro are of memphis.

no one can dispute the unbelievable growth and construction in south memphis in the airport city section. the aereopolis is billions of dollars in investments that will consistently and immediately bring money and new jobs to the memphis glob economy. the same is the completion of the outer belt, the improvement of the perimeter loop, and the ultimate construction of the new proposed 1 billion+ mississippi bridge in north downtown memphis.

this is only my limited reasons why i think that there will be unbelievable changes in city economic positions, populations, and the like beginning currently. for this sector of the south, memphis will continue its steady growth pattern, particularly downtown and midtown, which are changing rapidly day by day---not just inmigration.

as competition is so stiff between the city markets, i would be interested in seeing a list of 5-8 of the major southern cities over the next ten years. perhaps, only one or two of the same will remain the same, but i believe that we all might see some very interesting occurrences...i think richmond, durham, and memphis will be some of them.
 
Old 09-12-2009, 11:16 PM
 
656 posts, read 888,343 times
Reputation: 77
Very Interesting answer, thanks for that, how many years do you envision this though, a lot of cities have been around for a long time.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 03:36 AM
 
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Um, I am not quite sure what this thread is asking, but I'll try to give my 2 cents. The south (as a whole) will rise together. The south (as a whole) will sink together. I don't expect any "leap-frogging" to occur with any of the Southern cities or Southern states. The business and political infrastructure is pretty much in place now.

In other words, the same forces that would cause Atlanta to "fall off" would most likely be the same forces that causes Charlotte and Nashville to "fall off". Keep in mind, when the rust belt "fell off" almost every city in that region "fell off" together. The south is no different.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 09:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Um, I am not quite sure what this thread is asking, but I'll try to give my 2 cents. The south (as a whole) will rise together. The south (as a whole) will sink together. I don't expect any "leap-frogging" to occur with any of the Southern cities or Southern states. The business and political infrastructure is pretty much in place now.

In other words, the same forces that would cause Atlanta to "fall off" would most likely be the same forces that causes Charlotte and Nashville to "fall off". Keep in mind, when the rust belt "fell off" almost every city in that region "fell off" together. The south is no different.
in your opinion, do you think the south would repeat the rust belt scenario under any circumstances? even though the banking and loan debacle nearly brought our nation down, i think that technology will simply become more advanced and sophisticated. i don't see it being replaced as greatly and significantly as manufacturing-based/industrial-based companies have been. this occurred, of course, out of mechanical revolution, etc. even w/ these companies, most will continue to produce goods; however, improved technology will make them more efficient, which ultimately reduces the human labor element. it is certainly something to think about, when you begin to think beyond technology at large.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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well, from what i read in the late spring, raliegh-durham, according to brookings, is so significantly advanced in the technology fields---particularly bio-medical and defense---that it is hard to conceive other southern cities playing the kind of "catch up" needed to even---and certainly surpass---the current technology outputs of raliegh-durham, charlotte, and now the richmond area. i believe that area surpasses boston and most, if not all, of the northeast corridor. too, this advanced technology has been producing for at least 15 years. memphis, although it has always carried on various advanced research in children/adult surgery, procedure development, etc., it has only been in the "bio" and defense areas for about 5 years. birmingham has been positioning itself for about 3 years.

again, however, it is the nc triangle that is so far advanced in this area. currently, many in this area think that the banking industry in charlotte will not recover. i'm not so sure. however, charlotte seems to me to maintain a diverse regional economy, and much of that is tied into the hub of the technology/product/research and raliegh-durham, richmond triangle development. i think that is where their greatest strengths will be. there is no doubt, that charlotte has been a little more than burned on the banking deals. it will be interesting to watch the cities of nc. nc has really done so much for the hard economy of the south.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
7,936 posts, read 9,434,234 times
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First of all, Raleigh is spelled with the "e" before the "i".
As for the RTP area, it has not been an overnight success. It has been 50 years in the making since the leadership of NC was determined to stop the brain drain it was experiencing with its university graduates leaving the state. Now, the RTP area is attracting others' most talented grads while retaining more of its own. This has caused the area to explode with talent since the mid 60s when IBM put down roots in RTP. Now, the area boasts one of the most educated populations in the nation and is rich with talent. After the recession, I fully expect the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill train to continue moving at full speed.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 10:50 PM
 
656 posts, read 888,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Um, I am not quite sure what this thread is asking, but I'll try to give my 2 cents. The south (as a whole) will rise together. The south (as a whole) will sink together. I don't expect any "leap-frogging" to occur with any of the Southern cities or Southern states. The business and political infrastructure is pretty much in place now.

In other words, the same forces that would cause Atlanta to "fall off" would most likely be the same forces that causes Charlotte and Nashville to "fall off". Keep in mind, when the rust belt "fell off" almost every city in that region "fell off" together. The south is no different.
I doubt that is true, Minneapolis didn't fall off like many cities in Michigan. I believe competition between cities can occur and their respective political and economic environments can differ.
 
Old 09-13-2009, 10:55 PM
 
656 posts, read 888,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingchef View Post
well, from what i read in the late spring, raliegh-durham, according to brookings, is so significantly advanced in the technology fields---particularly bio-medical and defense---that it is hard to conceive other southern cities playing the kind of "catch up" needed to even---and certainly surpass---the current technology outputs of raliegh-durham, charlotte, and now the richmond area. i believe that area surpasses boston and most, if not all, of the northeast corridor. too, this advanced technology has been producing for at least 15 years. memphis, although it has always carried on various advanced research in children/adult surgery, procedure development, etc., it has only been in the "bio" and defense areas for about 5 years. birmingham has been positioning itself for about 3 years.

again, however, it is the nc triangle that is so far advanced in this area. currently, many in this area think that the banking industry in charlotte will not recover. i'm not so sure. however, charlotte seems to me to maintain a diverse regional economy, and much of that is tied into the hub of the technology/product/research and raliegh-durham, richmond triangle development. i think that is where their greatest strengths will be. there is no doubt, that charlotte has been a little more than burned on the banking deals. it will be interesting to watch the cities of nc. nc has really done so much for the hard economy of the south.
The research triangle has been around for quite come time, it comes up in the media/news , its useful to have, I am not so sure about Richmond (are you referring to Richmond,VA) being a prime contender or even Birmingham , they have their respective industries and strengths but they haven't seen the growth or interest as North Carolina, even a lot of North Carolina's prefer it (NC) then South Carolina, unless you live in Charlotte where NC is right near the border (a lot of people from the northeast have moved to NC more so than many other sates).

There are also "halfbacks" those who are moving from Florida back to places like Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, the later is interesting in how it may attract people from North Carolina and Florida.
 
Old 09-14-2009, 03:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
I doubt that is true, Minneapolis didn't fall off like many cities in Michigan. I believe competition between cities can occur and their respective political and economic environments can differ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Keep in mind, when the rust belt "fell off" almost every city in that region "fell off" together. The south is no different.
I did say "almost every city" in the rust belt fell off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingchef View Post
in your opinion, do you think the south would repeat the rust belt scenario under any circumstances?
In time, yes. Will it happen within the next 50 years? I doubt it. Too many folks are still moving to the south from other (more expensive) regions.

Even in Charlotte, people still continue to move here in large numbers (completely ignoring Charlotte's high unemployment rate). The good news is that Charlotte's unemployment rate actually posted a slight drop last month. Hopefully this is the start of a trend.

I am not sure about Nashville and Memphis, but I know that metro Charlotte averages nearly 60,000 newcomers a year. If this trend continues, Charlotte's CSA will break the 3 million mark in about 10 years (without adding any counties). Heck, Raleigh/Durham will break the 2 million mark in about 6 years. Greensboro/Winston-Salem could reach 2 million in 15 years or so. NC is by NO MEANS a one trick pony when it comes to cities/metros with economic/population growth. NC is quickly becoming the southeast's "2nd Florida" and I mean that in a good way.

The fact that NC will soon have two (or even three) CSAs with over 2 million people is VERY unique for a southeastern state (or any state for that matter). Florida is currently the only state (in the southeast) with more than one 2 million-plus CSA.

Population is very key because people=economic strength. This is a known fact. Here is a link that shows how all states stack up in terms of GDP.

List of U.S. states by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NC is currently the 2nd largest state in the southeast (behind only Florida) when it comes to economic activity. NC is 9th in the nation (up from 11th just 4 years ago). Tennessee recently fell from 18th to 19th thanks to fast moving Arizona.

GDP is a great way to predict future population/economic growth. Clearly, NC is heading up (and fast). I honestly don't see NC changing direction anytime soon.
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