U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-15-2009, 04:08 PM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,315 posts, read 8,132,063 times
Reputation: 2508

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcee510 View Post
I am majoring in Communication Studies in college and many of my professors train people how to speak in public and they claim it is always better if you over pronounce. Your audience has a better chance of understanding you.

I live in California and I don't think I have ever heard someone call the Park P-O-R-K or Mark M-O-R-K In California we have the Cot-Caught merger. The sound change causes the vowel in Caught, Talk, and small to be pronounced like the vowel in cot, rock, and doll. However the change does not affect a vowel followed by r. So in California you would never hear a person call a Park P-O-R-K, it would be pronounced correctly. For example Barn and Born remain distinct out here in California. Park and Mark are bad examples because we actually do not change the vowel in those instances.
I'm a California native and life-long resident and i have heard plenty of people talk like that. It's more an urban thing I think, and is prevalent in the native working class, but not really with too many other people at all, or at least to a lesser extent. I've especially noticed it in the Bay Area (i myself speak a little like that), but i've heard similar accents in Sacramento, LA and San Diego too. Not all of California's 38 million residents sound exactly the same.

as far as the caught-cot thing look at this (probably explains the P-O-R-K thing too, as far as the Bay Area goes):

Quote:
Most speakers do not distinguish between /ɔ/ and /ɑ/, characteristic of the cot-caught merger. A notable exception may be found within the San Francisco Bay Area, whose native inhabitants' speech somewhat reflects a historical East-Coast heritage which has probably influenced the maintenance of the distinction between words such as caught and cot.
California English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-15-2009, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington
2,317 posts, read 6,895,680 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k View Post
It depends on where your from, though. I've met rural folks from central California who had prominent Oklahoman accents (likely descended from dust bowl refugees). On the other hand, I was shooting pool the other day with some folks from NE California, and they sounded like they from Montana or Wyoming.

On another point in this thread...who here actually pronounces the g in 'going'?
I know some people do for sure, but I always assumed that standard American English omitted the g in informal speech (I always have). For example, if I were to say that I was heading in to Sacramento for the day, I'd say: I'm (g)onna head on in to Sac in an hour or so, anybody else goin'? In that example, I'd also usually drop the 'g' in 'gonna.'

I personally consider myself to have a pretty neautral accent, except I did catch myself saying "crick" to refer to a "creek" the other day.
Concerning the former, most Northwesterners and my parents from California all pronounce the g in going. It sounds uneducated and hick to omit it. I always assumed most people, aside from Southerners, DON'T omit it.

And concerning the latter... I wonder where that came from too. My grandma who grew up in rural Colorado says it too. I think it's just a general rural Western drawl thing that you can find there or the Southwest or California or the Northwest...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2009, 05:50 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,291,340 times
Reputation: 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
Concerning the former, most Northwesterners and my parents from California all pronounce the g in going. It sounds uneducated and hick to omit it. I always assumed most people, aside from Southerners, DON'T omit it.

And concerning the latter... I wonder where that came from too. My grandma who grew up in rural Colorado says it too. I think it's just a general rural Western drawl thing that you can find there or the Southwest or California or the Northwest...
Most educated people - including southerners - don't omit the final g sound. Who says "going" anyway? I thought most people said "gonna".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,334 posts, read 17,128,966 times
Reputation: 6075
Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
Concerning the former, most Northwesterners and my parents from California all pronounce the g in going. It sounds uneducated and hick to omit it. I always assumed most people, aside from Southerners, DON'T omit it.

And concerning the latter... I wonder where that came from too. My grandma who grew up in rural Colorado says it too. I think it's just a general rural Western drawl thing that you can find there or the Southwest or California or the Northwest...
Most Northerners and Southerners I know drop the "G" at the end of "Going", it doesn't sound uneducated to me because I'm used to it and that's how I talk but you aren't used to it so I guess that's why it sounds hick-like or uneducated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Most educated people - including southerners - don't omit the final g sound. Who says "going" anyway? I thought most people said "gonna".
Yeah me too, I almost never hear going unless someone asks "where you goin'?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,241 posts, read 24,473,280 times
Reputation: 13020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k View Post

Another key indicator of a Northern Californian (or at least somebody influenced by Northern Californians) is the word "hella."
I use the word "hella" occasionally, but I happen to be Southern Californian.

As for the "g" at the end of "going", I think I omit the last g when it's in a casual sense, but if I'm serious -- like when one of the kids is going out the door without asking, I'll probably pronounce the last g, for emphasis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2009, 08:40 PM
 
517 posts, read 1,157,652 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah View Post
I'm a California native and life-long resident and i have heard plenty of people talk like that. It's more an urban thing I think, and is prevalent in the native working class, but not really with too many other people at all, or at least to a lesser extent. I've especially noticed it in the Bay Area (i myself speak a little like that), but i've heard similar accents in Sacramento, LA and San Diego too. Not all of California's 38 million residents sound exactly the same.

as far as the caught-cot thing look at this (probably explains the P-O-R-K thing too, as far as the Bay Area goes):


California English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have lived in the Bay Area (East Bay) my whole life I can honestly say I have never heard anyone prounounce Park like Pork or Mark like Mork. I asked my family, friends, boyfriend and they all stated they have never heard Park or Mark pronounced that way either. Do you by chance have an example of this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2009, 09:47 PM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,315 posts, read 8,132,063 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcee510 View Post
I have lived in the Bay Area (East Bay) my whole life I can honestly say I have never heard anyone prounounce Park like Pork or Mark like Mork. I asked my family, friends, boyfriend and they all stated they have never heard Park or Mark pronounced that way either. Do you by chance have an example of this?
haha, well "pork" is definitely an exaggeration of the general sound. If you ask me it would sound more like Poark or Pawrk or something, not pork. Most people who have that accent don't have it extremely strong or anything, and it might not even show all the time. In my opinion it sounds mostly like your typical west coast/california accent...with the exception of some certian elements, such as the "park" and "mark" examples. Another that comes to mind is the word "on" and other similar sounds, which will sound more like "owan" sometimes. Anyways, like i said, not even that many natives have the accent that distinct, or even at all in the first place It's gotta be a dying accent or something...i know it's there, I'm not crazy, and i'm not the only one who's noticed it. but it is pretty inconsistent, to the point where i feel like you'd usually have to listen to someone talk for a while in most cases before you get an example. I don't think anyones gonna be talking like that at all anymore 10 or 20 years from now. Anyways, I've even been asked if i was from the east coast by a fellow SF native before , and some of my other SF native friends have been asked themselves if theyre' from the east coast too, which kind of shows what i'm talking about in regards to the inconsistency (wikipedia tells me this "accent" is a combination of some eastcoast and upper midwest influences left over, as people from over there heavily settled the Bay Area in the past. Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc)

One good way to hear this is to listen to Bay Area hip hop, especially old school as in my opinion it seems like it was more common back in the day. Here's a good example, listen to how this dude from SF pronounces some of his words (such as mark and park at 1:11 in the video...nifty coincidence that's its those two words, lol):

YouTube - Cellski - Livin' N The Bay (1995) Mr. Predicter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2009, 11:43 AM
 
5,861 posts, read 14,068,841 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
There's something different about how a Californian pronounces vowels. Not quite sure how to describe it.

Here in the midwest, if I say "got", the short "O" sound is very exaggerated. "GAHT".

When I hear it from a Californian, it's slightly different. Less emphasis on the "shortness" of the vowel, you might say. "Got" sounds more like "Gawt" to me.

That's my two cents.
Exactly! Thus, Mark = Mork. I knew some native Californians who had a son they named "Parker". They called him "Porker" (or that's how it sounded to my ears!).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2009, 11:52 AM
 
5,861 posts, read 14,068,841 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah View Post
haha, well "pork" is definitely an exaggeration of the general sound. If you ask me it would sound more like Poark or Pawrk or something, not pork. Most people who have that accent don't have it extremely strong or anything, and it might not even show all the time. In my opinion it sounds mostly like your typical west coast/california accent...with the exception of some certian elements, such as the "park" and "mark" examples. Another that comes to mind is the word "on" and other similar sounds, which will sound more like "owan" sometimes. Anyways, like i said, not even that many natives have the accent that distinct, or even at all in the first place It's gotta be a dying accent or something...i know it's there, I'm not crazy, and i'm not the only one who's noticed it. but it is pretty inconsistent, to the point where i feel like you'd usually have to listen to someone talk for a while in most cases before you get an example. I don't think anyones gonna be talking like that at all anymore 10 or 20 years from now. Anyways, I've even been asked if i was from the east coast by a fellow SF native before , and some of my other SF native friends have been asked themselves if theyre' from the east coast too, which kind of shows what i'm talking about in regards to the inconsistency (wikipedia tells me this "accent" is a combination of some eastcoast and upper midwest influences left over, as people from over there heavily settled the Bay Area in the past. Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc)

One good way to hear this is to listen to Bay Area hip hop, especially old school as in my opinion it seems like it was more common back in the day. Here's a good example, listen to how this dude from SF pronounces some of his words (such as mark and park at 1:11 in the video...nifty coincidence that's its those two words, lol):

YouTube - Cellski - Livin' N The Bay (1995) Mr. Predicter
I'm not so sure that a hip-hop artist would be a good gauge of his city's pronounciation. Vocal artists tend to mimic--either intentionally or not--other artists who may not be from their area. Classic is Bob Dylan's pronounciation and inflection. Bob was a Northern Minnesota boy, but his idol was Oklahoman Woody Guthrie. The result is interesting, to say the least! Also give a listen to contemporary blue grass singers. When many of them sing they sound pure Appalachian backwoods, but when they speak they sound midwest, eastern, west coast, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2009, 11:53 AM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 1,964,155 times
Reputation: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I use the word "hella" occasionally, but I happen to be Southern Californian.

As for the "g" at the end of "going", I think I omit the last g when it's in a casual sense, but if I'm serious -- like when one of the kids is going out the door without asking, I'll probably pronounce the last g, for emphasis.

I HATE HELLA! And it's so contagious. If you hang around people who say it, you will catch yourself saying it. Even if there is only one person in your circle of friends who says it, by the end of the month everyone will be saying it... only to be ridiculed by their other friends.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top