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Old 10-30-2009, 10:16 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
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A predictable habit of mine is to say I am loggin' out..and then read a little more and say something else. LOL

Anway, seems like in many ways we got off the OT and got into that enduring and ne'r will be settled question as to Texas and its relationship to the other states of the South. Here is just my own summation (pasted from another thread):

***********

Differences:

1. A frontier western culture as opposed to ante-bellum eastern. Ranching, cattle and cowboys.

2. Generally speaking, less of an obscession/identification with "being Southern" than "being Texan." The two connect, of course. Let a "yankee" get obnoxious and bad-mouth the South in Texas, and they will find the fight they are looking for. Which indicates, even if latently, that most Texans feel themselves part of the South in some form or fashion. Or at least instinctively know non-Southerners see it that way and they percieve an attack on the South as an attack on Texas. I don't really know how to explain this one...but I have seen it work before.

3. Topography. Most of Texas doesn't fit that moonlight and magnolias image. Forests of any sort -- while definitely more prevelant than Hollywood westerns present -- are not the general rule in Texas (again, East Texas being the exeption).

4. Size. As "Acidman" (may he RIP), once said: Texas is just TOO DAMN BIG to be truly Southern. LOL

5. Diversity. Unlike most Southern states (Louisiana is a noteable exception with its Cajun/French population), Texas has always had at least a sizeable Mexican and German influence. The former is NOT like that of the true Interior Southwest (which Texas is not part of) , but it exists in a way which it doesn't elsewhere in the South.

KINSHIP:

1. Settlement patterns: Texas was settled overwhelmingly -- both ante and post-bellum -- by pioneers/adventurers from the American Southeast. Hell, there is an old barb I once read where some wag from Georgia said to some northerner: We Southerners sent our embarrassing and insane kin to Texas...where did you yankees send y'alls? LMAO

2. Cotton culture. Texas was very much part of the old Southern "Cotton Belt". For all its iconic legend in movies, it was not cattle but cotton that played the dominant role in state agriculture for many years.

3. Speech -- "Texas tawk" is just one of many sub-varities of what is broadly known as "Southern American English".

4. Religion -- The Southern Baptist Church is easily the largest Protestant denomination in the state.

5. The Confederacy: Even though Texas is not the state in which Confederate traditions have lived most strongly, it was a charter member of the CSA. Confederate Heroes Day is an official state holiday and monuments to the Confederacy exist on almost all county courthouse grounds (even out in El Paso). And quite a few Texas high schools are named after Confederate heroes and adopt the "Rebels" mascot and use "Dixie" as a fight song.

6. Politics: "Solid South" Democratic for over a century, then shifting in tandem to Republican.

7. Traditions; Tex-Mex is Texican, but most Texas "home cookin" is a direct decendant of those brought by our southeastern antecedents. BBQ, catfish, fried okra, black-eyed peas on New Years Day (particularly noteable), iced tea consumed by the gallons. Family reunions and the notion of the extended family.

8. Self-Identification: THIS one might be the most important of all. Every "scientific" survey ever done indicates that the vast majority of Texans consider themselves to live in the South and be Southerners.

***************

All in all, I would say, the differences are important. But in the whole scheme of things, superficial, when stacked up against the kinship.

Now then, g'night y'all!

Last edited by TexasReb; 10-30-2009 at 10:40 PM..
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:31 PM
 
737 posts, read 1,040,498 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
I don't hear people talk about the deep south period, except on this forum. Like I posted earlier, it's a reference to the group of southern states where plantation agriculture was prevalent. It obviously isn't prevalent anymore...
Aside from your source disagreeing with you
Quote:
Arkansan Mike Huckabee did well in the Deep South in 2008 Republican primaries, losing only one state (South Carolina) while running (he had dropped out of the race before the primary in Mississippi). He struggled, though, outside the South, winning just 12.9 percent of the delegate count.
The term is used

By News Organizations

Deep South sees another twister, severe storms
Dangerous weather in the Deep South
Democrats expand big tent in the Deep South

In sports

(http://www.georgiadogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8800&ATCLID=676604 - broken link) Georgia And Auburn Face Off In Deep South's Oldest Rivalry (http://www.georgiadogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8800&ATCLID=676604 - broken link)


By professors in the deep south

in the Deep South ... said Todd Shaw, assistant professor of political science at the University of South Carolina.

And by Universities not in the area

Students roll into Deep South for extended study

Contemporary course studies

Social Stratification in the American (DEEP) South

So the assertion that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
According to the article, the deep south is no more because the plantation lifestyle that was prevalent in the deep south is no more. But people still use the term in a negative way.

I've discussed this point already for the last 2 pages, and I'm growing tired of it. If you don't get it by now, you won't.
Is wrong

Last edited by CityPerson09; 10-30-2009 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:43 AM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,271,767 times
Reputation: 2782
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityPerson09 View Post
Aside from your source disagreeing with you

The term is used

By News Organizations

Deep South sees another twister, severe storms
Dangerous weather in the Deep South
Democrats expand big tent in the Deep South

In sports

(http://www.georgiadogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8800&ATCLID=676604 - broken link)Georgia And Auburn Face Off In Deep South's Oldest Rivalry (http://www.georgiadogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8800&ATCLID=676604 - broken link)


By professors in the deep south

in the Deep South ... said Todd Shaw, assistant professor of political science at the University of South Carolina.

And by Universities not in the area

Students roll into Deep South for extended study

Contemporary course studies

Social Stratification in the American (DEEP) South

So the assertion that



Is wrong
And guess what? Texas is included in it.

Oh yes, you've proven me wrong. Everybody knows it can't be an archaic term if NEWS AGENCIES use it! Dude, those are headlines and it's used for drama. Get over it. But just to show you that anyone can pull up whatever on the internet...these are all in Texas:

Sugas Deep South Cuisine and Jazz Bar Beaumont Texas (TX)

Deep South Texas Campgrounds & Resorts

Deep South Crane & Rigging - Beaumont, Texas (TX) | Company Profile

Deep South Productions Website

Deep South Construction: Disaster Relief Houston, Galveston TX

Deep South Equipment

Deep South Crane & Rigging - About Us - Contact & Locations

And look! CNN includes Texas in the Deep South! It must be true!
Cold snap leaves Deep South in a deep freeze - CNN.com

Last edited by DeaconJ; 10-31-2009 at 03:00 AM..
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:00 AM
 
1,712 posts, read 2,757,539 times
Reputation: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
I don't think that to anyone else, there is a difference. Texas and the South are one and the same.

I suppose an argument could be made between west Texas vs. the south, but again... they're all the same to the rest of us.

No, not to the rest of you, only the ones that listen to tired and ignorant stereotypes

Texas is its own region as far as I am concerned, but the rest of the south in great as well. They all share the same trait.... wonderful people
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:58 AM
 
737 posts, read 1,040,498 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
And guess what? Texas is included in it.

Oh yes, you've proven me wrong. Everybody knows it can't be an archaic term if NEWS AGENCIES use it! Dude, those are headlines and it's used for drama. Get over it. But just to show you that anyone can pull up whatever on the internet...these are all in Texas:

Sugas Deep South Cuisine and Jazz Bar Beaumont Texas (TX)

Deep South Texas Campgrounds & Resorts

Deep South Crane & Rigging - Beaumont, Texas (TX) | Company Profile

Deep South Productions Website

Deep South Construction: Disaster Relief Houston, Galveston TX

Deep South Equipment

Deep South Crane & Rigging - About Us - Contact & Locations

And look! CNN includes Texas in the Deep South! It must be true!
Cold snap leaves Deep South in a deep freeze - CNN.com

CNN uses Texas because even like your source admits that PARTS of Texas are considered parts of the deep south like PARTS of Florida

Quote:
The states in dark red compose the Deep South today. Adjoining areas of East Texas and North Florida are also sometimes considered part of this subregion
So thank you for further continuing to prove how I am correct that the phrase "deep south" is used by many people today despite your incorrect assertion that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
According to the article, the deep south is no more because the plantation lifestyle that was prevalent in the deep south is no more. But people still use the term in a negative way.

I've discussed this point already for the last 2 pages, and I'm growing tired of it. If you don't get it by now, you won't.
All you are doing now is proving that I am correct that "Deep South" is a phrase used by people to describe a region of the country despite any negative connotations attached.

Instead of you admitting you're wrong I would like for you to continue. You say the phrases are useless because of "negativity" attached them. Once you realized that failed argument you try to say the "deep south" is no more. Once that argument falls apart you now admitt the deep south's existence and are back to the original topic of whether or not Texas is included in the deep south.


Thank you for

1. Admitting you are wrong, and that despite negative use of terms they are still used
2. Admitting you are wrong, and that the use of "deep south" is still prevalent despite your false assertion
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,680,544 times
Reputation: 7280
OK; we'll just allow Texas to be considered southern on city-data; because only on here will people say it is. If you know Texas; you'd know it isn't southern.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,680,544 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Well, sorry in turn that you didn't explain your position well enough to not provoke anything but understandable antagonism...even among some fellow Texans. Don't blame us for that. But yes, we will just have to agree to disagree. And, 'least as far as I am concerned, nothing personal. Just a squabble amonst friends!

Time to hit the sack...!
Most Texans have agreed with me on the issue. It's not about dividing Texas from the south; its about distinguishing the differences amongst the South and Texas. You guys call it superiority; I call it truth.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:26 AM
 
Location: USA
2,779 posts, read 6,687,151 times
Reputation: 1869
The oil and gas industry ties Texas and Louisiana in a big way. Culturally there is a large difference between the two states although politics and religion are often similar. Once you get into Texas you can see/feel/hear some differences. To me Texans seem more logical about things and less emotional when it comes to running state government, local gov., etc. than does Louisiana. This may be part of the deep south difference. Deep south is really an antiquated term although people still use it. If you were to come down here you may be more keen to spot the differences than myself since I live here and have lived here most of my life.

There are pockets of deep south in Texas, especially along the Louisiana border, but the state is a mixture of other regional cultures as well including upper South and Western South Great Plains (not at all like Nebraska, Co., Wy)
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:31 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Most Texans have agreed with me on the issue.
I am not even sure what the "issue" is. And what do you mean by "most" agree with you...and in what way?

Quote:
It's not about dividing Texas from the south; its about distinguishing the differences amongst the South and Texas. You guys call it superiority; I call it truth.
No, I think the way you approach it and your wording comes across as superior and arrogant. I will be the FIRST to agree there are differences (see my post above). While I know we Texans have a rep for being very prideful and boasting about our state (and I share in it), the qualification is that it is usually in a sorta self-effacing way and humorous way. That is, we don't take ourselves too seriously, and make up bigger jokes about ourselves than anybody else every could...

But anyway, in considering some of your messages, you seem to be contradicting yourself. In one post, you say Texas IS part of the South (but different, and I agree). In others, you say it isn't at all. I guess I am not following you...
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,680,544 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I am not even sure what the "issue" is. And what do you mean by "most" agree with you...and in what way?



No, I think the way you approach it and your wording comes across as superior and arrogant. I will be the FIRST to agree there are differences (see my post above). While I know we Texans have a rep for being very prideful and boasting about our state (and I share in it), the qualification is that it is usually in a sorta self-effacing way and humorous way. That is, we don't take ourselves too seriously, and make up bigger jokes about ourselves than anybody else every could...

But anyway, in considering some of your messages, you seem to be contradicting yourself. In one post, you say Texas IS part of the South (but different, and I agree). In others, you say it isn't at all. I guess I am not following you...
I never said Texas was southern as a whole; I always speak on the parts that have more southern influence than western. I always just leave it as "Texas is Texas" because of how much influence different regions in the country have had on it.
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