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I've got Texas' back most of the time around here, but I am frankly insulted by that post - and I like jluke. That statement is just SO wrong, in so many ways.
It makes perfect sense. Texas is ethnically, politically, and religiously more diverse than the deep south. I'm not saying we are like CA or NY, but to say we are like the deep south is wrong. Texas has influences outside of the southern influence; which has always kept us ahead of the rest of the south.
Thanks for your courteous reply! Just a few additional comments (WARNING: I always use that phrase to preface a long, boring, treatise! LOL):
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpmeads
Many of the reasons I've seen you give for West Texas being attributed to the South (such as religion or political views) can really describe rural and small town American culture than just the South.
Again I see your point, so perhaps I wasn't quite specific enough. Sure, the "traditional Protestant" religion is common in most rural and small town parts of America. But in speaking of west Texas, I was referring to the dominance of the Southern Baptist Church in particular...which is fairly well confined to the Southern United States. Same with politics. It isn't conservatism per se, but voting patterns and party dominance over a long period of time. Texas was very much part of the Democratic "Solid South" for over a century, and the existence of the Republicans at state level was virtually non-existent. Then later, starting about the time of the 1972 elections began to change in tandem with the rest of the region into a different type of the same, only this time, toward Republicans.
That sort of thing.
Quote:
I can understand where you are coming form though. From what you have said, it seems like you have had more experience with influences of Southern culture in the Texas and have also had a great deal of experience with other states in the South. So it would make sense that the first cultural influence you notice anywhere in Texas is related to the South.
Yes and no. True that my own personal Texas experiences have been "Southern" in nature. At the same time though, every since I can remember, Texas/Southern studies have been an avocation of mine. And honest readings and research on the subject were really what lead me to the conclusion that Texas, as a whole, when grouped with a region, is essentially a Southern state.
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As for me, I have also had a great deal of exposure to the Southern influence in Texas, but I think I have been even more exposed to the Western and Mexican influence in Texas than Southern. So that's why I don't normally think of Texas cities' relevance to the South when analyzing the cultural influences of different regions in Texas.
Good points and I see what you are saying! And I would only note -- hastening to add this is not in the least disputing your own experiences and opinions -- that to me, the "western" aspect of Texas is not necessarily seperate from the South. From the southeast, yes. But not from the cultural and historical entity known as the South (unless one believes, and to be fair, many do) the southeast and South are synonymous.
That is to say, much of what is "western" in Texas has direct Southern roots (the Texas cowboy and its famed gunfighters, for instance). I always think of Texas as western in the same way as Kansas is western. Both were largely settled after the WBTS, share the frontier era and the cattle drive icon (from different angles of course...cattle drives vs. cowtowns), but neither state is The West as to be grouped with a Colorado, New Mexico, etc.
Kansas is the "western Midwest" just as much of Texas is the "western South." It combines the basic history and culture of the South with the characteristics of the western frontier era. To me, that leaves plenty of room to be proud of both our Southern and western heritage; the South with a western flair, if you will. A unique blend found only in Texas!
Quote:
I would say neither one of us is "wrong" about Texas culture, we've just have had different experiences in one of the most culturally diverse states in the country.
I agree with this totally. Personal experience and even bias can be a big factor when it comes to regional classification! Again, thanks for a very interesting and informative post!
It makes perfect sense. Texas is ethnically, politically, and religiously more diverse than the deep south. I'm not saying we are like CA or NY, but to say we are like the deep south is wrong. Texas has influences outside of the southern influence; which has always kept use ahead of the rest of the south.
This is NOTHING more than your very subjective opinion. Period.
It makes perfect sense. Texas is ethnically, politically, and religiously more diverse than the deep south. I'm not saying we are like CA or NY, but to say we are like the deep south is wrong. Texas has influences outside of the southern influence; which has always kept us ahead of the rest of the south.
You are absolutely right. The idea that Texas is somehow a "deep south" state is ridiculous. Some parts of the state can reflect the deep south, but as a whole? No way
Thanks for your courteous reply! Just a few additional comments (WARNING: I always use that phrase to preface a long, boring, treatise! LOL):
Again I see your point, so perhaps I wasn't quite specific enough. Sure, the "traditional Protestant" religion is common in most rural and small town parts of America. But in speaking of west Texas, I was referring to the dominance of the Southern Baptist Church in particular...which is fairly well confined to the Southern United States. Same with politics. It isn't conservatism per se, but voting patterns and party dominance over a long period of time. Texas was very much part of the Democratic "Solid South" for over a century, and the existence of the Republicans at state level was virtually non-existent. Then later, starting about the time of the 1972 elections began to change in tandem with the rest of the region into a different type of the same, only this time, toward Republicans.
That sort of thing.
Yes and no. True that my own personal Texas experiences have been "Southern" in nature. At the same time though, every since I can remember, Texas/Southern studies have been an avocation of mine. And honest readings and research on the subject were really what lead me to the conclusion that Texas, as a whole, when grouped with a region, is essentially a Southern state.
Good points and I see what you are saying! And I would only note -- hastening to add this is not in the least disputing your own experiences and opinions -- that to me, the "western" aspect of Texas is not necessarily seperate from the South. From the southeast, yes. But not from the cultural and historical entity known as the South (unless one believes, and to be fair, many do) the southeast and South are synonymous.
That is to say, much of what is "western" in Texas has direct Southern roots (the Texas cowboy and its famed gunfighters, for instance). I always think of Texas as western in the same way as Kansas is western. Both were largely settled after the WBTS, share the frontier era and the cattle drive icon (from different angles of course...cattle drives vs. cowtowns), but neither state is The West as to be grouped with a Colorado, New Mexico, etc.
Kansas is the "western Midwest" just as much of Texas is the "western South." It combines the basic history and culture of the South with the characteristics of the western frontier era. To me, that leaves plenty of room to be proud of both our Southern and western heritage; the South with a western flair, if you will. A unique blend found only in Texas!
I agree with this totally. Personal experience and even bias can be a big factor when it comes to regional classification! Again, thanks for a very interesting and informative post!
well your welcome.
I remember back in school, the Geography books would seem to switch back and forth between Texas being in the South and the Southwest. Hell, even in college football, Texas, T A&M, T Tech, and Baylor are all grouped in with Midwestern and Western colleges. All four of the universities used to be a part of the Southwestern Conference if I'm not mistaken. IMO, the best classification for Texas and Oklahoma is South Central.
Texas is a beautiful blend of numerous different cultures, both foreign and regional, that come to gather to create our state and our people. That's why I like it here is because not many states can claim to be as culturally and ethnically diverse as Texas. I think that is what separates our state from the rest of the South. Not that Texas is better, just much different IMO. So that is why I have a hard time classifying it as more Southern than anything else, but I do see your point. Again, I don't think there is "wrong" side to this discussion. I guess you have to classify the sate with some region. Why not the South?
You are absolutely right. The idea that Texas is somehow a "deep south" state is ridiculous. Some parts of the state can reflect the deep south, but as a whole? No way
What do you think that the "deep south" is like? How is it somehow drastically different from Texas?
Too many people assume a particular "deep south" mentality or culture that is more reminiscent of the 1800s. It's 2009, and a lot has changed.
What do you think that the "deep south" is like? How is it somehow drastically different from Texas?
Too many people assume a particular "deep south" mentality or culture that is more reminiscent of the 1800s. It's 2009, and a lot has changed.
Thank you!
Some of these posts are starting to take on the tone of the DC threads that MUST distance themselves from anything Southern. They smack of superiority, and it's a huge turn-off to me.
I think some people here don't know what the definition of "progressive" is when it comes to culture/politics. Texas may not be last in the southern states, but it is not even close to the middle of the pack...
FYI... Libertarian and Progressive are normally antithesis of each other, and TX is known to be pro libertarian at large.
While TX cities are more progressive then the rest of the state, when compared to the other 40 super metros of this country, they also would not be considered to be very progressive in relation to other metros.
Also a "cookie" to some folks so you don't go into I.C. mode: Progressiveness is just a mindset. You don't have to consider it the best way as all options are of value within human culture. A non-progessive mindset (ie libertarian) has some very pro qualities to it for many people.
What do you think that the "deep south" is like? How is it somehow drastically different from Texas?
Too many people assume a particular "deep south" mentality or culture that is more reminiscent of the 1800s. It's 2009, and a lot has changed.
I have family from Alabama and Louisiana, I have been to both of those states, and my brother spent 4 mouths over the summer sailing books door to door in Mississippi. One of the first sentences people would tell my brother is "welcome to the Deep South." I have also been to Mississippi myself. People in that area who are familiar with Texas and Texans do not consider it to be the a part of the Deep South. There is a HUGE difference between Texas and those three states even if it does retain some similarities. Texas is most certainly NOT Deep South.
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Sure, the "traditional Protestant" religion is common in most rural and small town parts of America. But in speaking of west Texas, I was referring to the dominance of the Southern Baptist Church in particular...which is fairly well confined to the Southern United States. Same with politics. It isn't conservatism per se, but voting patterns and party dominance over a long period of time. Texas was very much part of the Democratic "Solid South" for over a century, and the existence of the Republicans at state level was virtually non-existent. Then later, starting about the time of the 1972 elections began to change in tandem with the rest of the region into a different type of the same, only this time, toward Republicans. 
