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Old 11-10-2009, 10:37 AM
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Location: Ohio
16,828 posts, read 33,254,503 times
Reputation: 13625

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Make your points less personally, please. Some of the instances of the word "you" in these posts are in sentences that get perilously close to the threshold of personal attacks. This controversial thread won't stay open for long if it goes in that direction.

Last edited by Bo; 11-10-2009 at 10:52 AM..

 
Old 11-10-2009, 11:32 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,663,574 times
Reputation: 1423
first off, there is no reason for me to lie about the south. please.
second, how old are you, ahk? you are not finding a job with that kind of pay, straight out of college in 2009. it sounds like you graduated before my friends and i did and got into the job market when it was much better.

a lot of ppl are coming out to no job market. mad jobs have 343242 requirements before they even look at your resume. thats a big if, too because most put jobs up and don't fill them at all. nobody wants to train anybody. everybody wants someone that'll work for damn near pennies but they want you to have a degree plus 5 years experience to answer a phone, nowadays. this is everywhere (ny included, don't even get me started on the h1b visa thing...), but the job market in the south is worse than it is in the north.

the majority of the ppl that i know in the south that graduated from 06-now are practically begging for ANYTHING.

most ppl are stuck where they are IF they have something or struggling to make ends meet looking for something.

the south is not a utopia with 17 trees on each block, block parties with prominent black people doing the stanky leg before they hop into their 7 series to go to their offices downtown.

and i'm not talking small towns. i'm talking about in cities like charlotte, for example. the charlotte ppl will tell you that charlotte's job market is comatose.

**
anyway, the point is that there are more opportunities in the north, not that there are no opportunities in the south.

more in the north =/= none in the south.
 
Old 11-10-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,365 posts, read 2,471,146 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
first off, there is no reason for me to lie about the south. please.
second, how old are you, ahk? you are not finding a job with that kind of pay, straight out of college in 2009. it sounds like you graduated before my friends and i did and got into the job market when it was much better.

a lot of ppl are coming out to no job market. mad jobs have 343242 requirements before they even look at your resume. thats a big if, too because most put jobs up and don't fill them at all. nobody wants to train anybody. everybody wants someone that'll work for damn near pennies but they want you to have a degree plus 5 years experience to answer a phone, nowadays. this is everywhere (ny included, don't even get me started on the h1b visa thing...), but the job market in the south is worse than it is in the north.

the majority of the ppl that i know in the south that graduated from 06-now are practically begging for ANYTHING.

most ppl are stuck where they are IF they have something or struggling to make ends meet looking for something.

the south is not a utopia with 17 trees on each block, block parties with prominent black people doing the stanky leg before they hop into their 7 series to go to their offices downtown.

and i'm not talking small towns. i'm talking about in cities like charlotte, for example. the charlotte ppl will tell you that charlotte's job market is comatose.

**
anyway, the point is that there are more opportunities in the north, not that there are no opportunities in the south.

more in the north =/= none in the south.
I will repeat, you have to remember that everyone is not looking for those "opportunities". Everyone is not impressed with what New York has to offer.

And are you suggesting that the south doesn't have a lot of young, active, black professionals?
 
Old 11-10-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,659 posts, read 27,113,557 times
Reputation: 9591
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
again, i'm not trying to imply or say that the south has nothing at all and that every person in the south is backwards, slow moving, slow talking, not about anything, etc. i'm not saying that there are no parks, no high paying jobs, etc. in the south.

reread what i'm saying.

and my list is not irrelevant to most blacks. please. you want things to do? opportunities (economic and cultural?) then come to nyc and experience it all. there's a reason nyc is how it is and the south is how it is. we believe in progression now. we believe in having, we believe in making something out of nothing, we believe in business first, personal stuff second.

also, spade, why would i talk about what the south has when the guy i quoted wanted me to post what the south doesn't have?

comprehend what you read. and most blacks live in the south because of the history of slavery in this country. thats where the roots are. ppl return because their great grand mothers and grand mothers lived there.

for *younger* ppl, which is what i said, you benefit from living in the north during your youth waaaay more than living in the south if you have a go getter mentality. you can make money here easily. the opportunities just aren't there in the south for "average" ppl, in comparison. key word, comparison.

i'm not talking about your lawyers, doctors, or anything.

*edit again*
and hell yeah i named buildings but guess what?

empire state building
twin towers before they fell
ubs

members of my fam work(ed) in the above. so they aren't just buildings, those are jobs.

let me add to that list:

mtv
nbc
ny daily news
wall st
steve madden (the person)
def jam

got fam that works for all of the above. all black.

there are opportunities that you'd never find in the south like that, that are accessible to "everyday people."

you won't need a masters degree and 1823432 years of experience to make 40k in the north.

Your list is irrelevant to most blacks simply because much of it has nothing to do with the important reason, how do I make a living off of it. First off, Blacks aren't looking for which cities have the best tourist areas, which city has the best buildings, which city has the best media market, etc. Blacks are looking for where they can be sustainable. It does not matter where in the world it could happen. They are just looking for sustainability. The fact that the South is cheaper and the roots and culture is more blatant is why the South attracts many young and old black Americans. It is indenial to disregard the trend that's been going on the last 30 years in how it is basically a reverse great migration going on. You have three Southern States that have around 3 million blacks each and 1 state that has over 2 million. 4 out of the 5 largest states for Black Americans reside in the South. It is that way for a reason. Not because of some slavery thing that happened 150 years ago. Let's change our mindsets, please.

You don't need to lie about teh South. I don't need to lie about NYC or Chicago or wherever. The facts are there is opportunity in the South. It is the reason why many young black professionals have left NYC and Philadelphia to pursue what they believe is a better quality of life in Atlanta and Charlotte. It is a reason why many young Blacks are leaving Los Angeles and the Bay Area for Houston and Dallas. I'm young and black. I don't need to go to NYC to find things to do or to make a living. I know millions of other Blacks throughout this country feel the same way. Contrary to popular belief, NYC is not the greatest utopia for Black Americans. It never was and it never will be.
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:16 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,350,630 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
first off, there is no reason for me to lie about the south. please.
second, how old are you, ahk? you are not finding a job with that kind of pay, straight out of college in 2009. it sounds like you graduated before my friends and i did and got into the job market when it was much better.
I'm almost 30 years old. I know a guy who came into that same company right out of high school making upwards of that much as well; this was about a year ago. Don't get mad and try to impose another set of restrictions on your unfounded claims because I'm proving you wrong. And if you're talking about the job market now, hell everybody is suffering now, including NYC which has shed a few hundred thousand jobs since the recession began.

Quote:
a lot of ppl are coming out to no job market. mad jobs have 343242 requirements before they even look at your resume. thats a big if, too because most put jobs up and don't fill them at all. nobody wants to train anybody. everybody wants someone that'll work for damn near pennies but they want you to have a degree plus 5 years experience to answer a phone, nowadays. this is everywhere (ny included, don't even get me started on the h1b visa thing...), but the job market in the south is worse than it is in the north.
You keep making these wild claims with absolutely nothing to back them up. Now I'll give you Florida since they are one of the ground zero states for the housing market crash, but outside of that, we have several metro areas that aren't doing so badly in light of the recession. As a matter of fact, look at this:

Census data shows college graduates choosing urban, high-tech meccas in recession | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/nation/66640332.html?elr=KArksCiUMEaPc:UiacyKUUr - broken link)

Many college graduates are passing up industrial centers and former hotspots in the Southwest, which have been hit hard by the recession, in favor of life in urban, high-tech meccas. Their moves are fueling a resurgence of brainiacs in parts of California, North Carolina and Texas.

Census data released Tuesday offer the first detailed look at U.S. migration data, broken down by education and income, since the recession began in late 2007.

The data covering 2006-2008 show that Austin, Texas, Portland, Ore., Charlotte and Raleigh, both in North Carolina, and Seattle saw large jumps in residents with at least a college degree. Each offers the promise of specialized tech jobs and hip lifestyles.


I'm really going to need you to start offering concrete, statistical evidence instead of these fly-by-night anecdotes. And you haven't even offered any pertinent information about these people you know: the cities/towns they live in, what type of degrees they got, what schools they went to, etc.

Quote:
the majority of the ppl that i know in the south that graduated from 06-now are practically begging for ANYTHING.
Dude, we're in the middle of a global recession. This is true across the friggin' board.

Quote:
most ppl are stuck where they are IF they have something or struggling to make ends meet looking for something.
Yes, and this is true all across the country.

Quote:
the south is not a utopia with 17 trees on each block, block parties with prominent black people doing the stanky leg before they hop into their 7 series to go to their offices downtown.
The only one who's claiming that it is, only to debunk this false image, is yourself. That's called a strawman argument.

Quote:
and i'm not talking small towns. i'm talking about in cities like charlotte, for example. the charlotte ppl will tell you that charlotte's job market is comatose.
Charlotte isn't doing particularly well right now, this is true, but what else do you expect from a city that was home to two of the largest banks in the nation in the middle of a global recession where banks are failing left and right? And I wouldn't say that our job market is "comatose"; unemployment, while still too high, has been inching down and depending on your field, there are still jobs to be had here.

Quote:
anyway, the point is that there are more opportunities in the north, not that there are no opportunities in the south.
Your point is that the vast majority of opportunities in the South are utter crap when compared with other regions of the country. You've made that clear. I've presented hard data to the contrary, while you've produced nothing but unfounded assertions and vague anecdotes. Here are some other stats and data relevant to the conversation:



Forty Strongest U.S. Metro Economies: Employment and Economic Muscle - BusinessWeek

BusinessWeek.com used data and analysis from the Brookings Institution's new MetroMonitor to come up with the nation's 40 strongest economies. The MetroMonitor, which measures the nation's health on a quarterly basis, ranks the top 100 metros based on job growth, unemployment, gross metropolitan product, and home prices.

1. San Antonio
2. Austin
3. Oklahoma City
4. Little Rock
5. Dallas
6. Baton Rouge
7. Tulsa
8. Omaha
9. Houston
10. El Paso

MetroMonitor: Tracking Economic Recession and Recovery in America’s 100 Largest Metropolitan Areas

The 20 strongest-performing metro areas:

• Austin
• Baton Rouge
• Columbia, SC
• Dallas
• Des Moines
• El Paso
• Harrisburg
• Honolulu
• Houston
• Jackson, MS
• Little Rock
• McAllen, TX
• Oklahoma City
• Omaha
• Pittsburgh
• Rochester, NY
• San Antonio
• Tulsa
• Virginia Beach
• Washington, DC
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
815 posts, read 1,843,746 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post



the south is not a utopia with 17 trees on each block, block parties with prominent black people doing the stanky leg before they hop into their 7 series to go to their offices downtown.

.

Compared to up there it is. Whenever my cousins from Phily or NY come down here they are always amazed at the type of cars we drive down here, My little cousin Dre from Philly came and stayed with me for a month last summer, and when I took him to Lenox Square he was taking pictures of the cars in the VIP parking lot like some teenaged groupie. Two young black dudes pulled up in back to back Mazarati's and he got on the phone right then and there and called his freinds back in Philly to tell them what he had seen, he said he had never seen a Mazarati before, and I told him that I see at least 2 a week on Peachtree. He took pictures of my homeboy's Porshe truck and put them on his myspace page to show off to his people back home and flex like it was his. And you mentioned a 7 series BMW like that is saying something, Dude you can find a used 2003-2005 BMW 745 for like 15K-25K easy, and it is basically the same body style as the new one. Anybody can afford that. A BMW 7 series is not saying anything in Atlanta, if you want to show off pull up in a Lambo or Ferrari. LOL @ someone mentioning 7 series Beemers like its a big deal. Sorry buddy, but those things lose value so fast even the corner boys can afford them and drive them after the car has been out for a few years.
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
927 posts, read 1,913,716 times
Reputation: 737
Spade and Akh, y'all are murking that poster right now!
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,365 posts, read 2,471,146 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Your list is irrelevant to most blacks simply because much of it has nothing to do with the important reason, how do I make a living off of it. First off, Blacks aren't looking for which cities have the best tourist areas, which city has the best buildings, which city has the best media market, etc. Blacks are looking for where they can be sustainable. It does not matter where in the world it could happen. They are just looking for sustainability. The fact that the South is cheaper and the roots and culture is more blatant is why the South attracts many young and old black Americans. It is indenial to disregard the trend that's been going on the last 30 years in how it is basically a reverse great migration going on. You have three Southern States that have around 3 million blacks each and 1 state that has over 2 million. 4 out of the 5 largest states for Black Americans reside in the South. It is that way for a reason. Not because of some slavery thing that happened 150 years ago. Let's change our mindsets, please.

You don't need to lie about teh South. I don't need to lie about NYC or Chicago or wherever. The facts are there is opportunity in the South. It is the reason why many young black professionals have left NYC and Philadelphia to pursue what they believe is a better quality of life in Atlanta and Charlotte. It is a reason why many young Blacks are leaving Los Angeles and the Bay Area for Houston and Dallas. I'm young and black. I don't need to go to NYC to find things to do or to make a living. I know millions of other Blacks throughout this country feel the same way. Contrary to popular belief, NYC is not the greatest utopia for Black Americans. It never was and it never will be.
For the most part, I agree except for New York never having been a utopia for blacks, because it certainly was during the early 20th century. Harlem was once viewed much in the same way Atlanta is currently.

And while those days are "long gone", there is still a good presence of upwardly mobile blacks in NYC. What I'm trying to explain to eek is that there aren't doing anything of any more importance than black professionals down south.
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:35 PM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,663,574 times
Reputation: 1423
who is "murking" who?

the dude just posted encylopedia's about how ____ state is doing well, then goes on to mention a major city in one of the southern states as not doing well. come on, son.

and i never said that the economy wasn't terrible everywhere...i noticed that ahk left out where i said, "even in ny" but thats cool.

i'm not going to post articles with graphs, charts, etc. and i'm not going to quote 5 different posters at once and go back and forth with each of them.

its a fact that there are more econonic opportunities in nyc than in any part of the south, period. the thing that holds many black ppl back is the cost of living (but i'm a strong believer that you get what you pay for) and the lack of a drive and or motivation from others to go out and get those things. some ppl take things for granted and its unfortunate. habibi on the corner came here 5 years ago broke and now owns a business. your fam has been here since the dawn of time and you don't even own the room that you sleep in. thats life, tho.

spade, you must be talking about your fam from philly. i seriously doubt any nyer is impressed with anybody of any race stepping out of a maserati. anybody breathing has seen that at one point or another, frequently, in nyc. we see stars regularly. we see foreign cars regularly. we see wealth regularly. ppl from fam that is in history books...
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
927 posts, read 1,913,716 times
Reputation: 737
So true on so many levels. I think New York and other northern cities benefit greatly from a loud, obnoxious populace that provide their home cities free marketing, because so much of their attitudes rely on reputation and ignorance of other cities.

New York also benefits from sheer size. There is simply more of everything. But does that mean it's better? They might have 80 Kennedy Fried Chickens but I will damn sure never pick that over Q-Time and Chanterelle's in Atlanta (ATL peeps know the beauty of these soul food gems). There might be thousands more black students and people to network with in CUNY, but could that possibly beat the AUC experience and historical legacy that makes Spelman, Morehouse, and Clark so great? There might be a massive amount of tall buildings and grand skycrapers, but that will never beat the delight I get seeing fine Morehouse men, hip black college students, and black families on a daily basis walking down Peachtree and chilling in Castleberry Hill.

They are these experiences that make Atlanta feel very much like home and a place where I know I want to one day raise my kids and not the fact that MTV and Steve Madden have job openings in their "tres chic" office buildings so people can get a "paid internship" peddling their idiotic programming and pretentious fashions.

Beyond the quantity of opportunities for career is access to opportunities. I in fact, left New York because I knew for what I wanted to do, I would have more access in Atlanta. Meaning more people who are more likely to help and mentor me (also because Atlanta is my home city and I've cultivated numerous relationships here) versus the extreme competition of New York where all those people who've been convinced New York is the end all and be all are competing for scraps. There is a history of political and business opportunities that have been established for decades in many Southern cities, so the network is very great for those who tap into it.

I have loved every second of being back in the A and people who are driven and motivated thrive here. That's possible anywhere of course, but I actually enjoy the experience fulfilling it here because of the quality of life I experience and the literal joy I get seeing our natural landscape and open spaces. I also don't want to deny the fact that for the cream of the crop in virtually every industry, New York is one of the best places to work. But most people in New York, and especially the ones posting here, are not the CEOs of these global companies nor are most people living in New York who have been sold the "dream" that is NYC. New York's for people who are on the very top of the game. However, the average person right out of college and typical middle-class American does not fit that description, so for them, New York is not a viable option and they would be served well enjoying life and building up some place else.

No place is perfect, but Atlanta is not the #1 destination for migrating New Yorkers for no reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Your list is irrelevant to most blacks simply because much of it has nothing to do with the important reason, how do I make a living off of it. First off, Blacks aren't looking for which cities have the best tourist areas, which city has the best buildings, which city has the best media market, etc. Blacks are looking for where they can be sustainable. It does not matter where in the world it could happen. They are just looking for sustainability. The fact that the South is cheaper and the roots and culture is more blatant is why the South attracts many young and old black Americans. It is indenial to disregard the trend that's been going on the last 30 years in how it is basically a reverse great migration going on. You have three Southern States that have around 3 million blacks each and 1 state that has over 2 million. 4 out of the 5 largest states for Black Americans reside in the South. It is that way for a reason. Not because of some slavery thing that happened 150 years ago. Let's change our mindsets, please.

You don't need to lie about teh South. I don't need to lie about NYC or Chicago or wherever. The facts are there is opportunity in the South. It is the reason why many young black professionals have left NYC and Philadelphia to pursue what they believe is a better quality of life in Atlanta and Charlotte. It is a reason why many young Blacks are leaving Los Angeles and the Bay Area for Houston and Dallas. I'm young and black. I don't need to go to NYC to find things to do or to make a living. I know millions of other Blacks throughout this country feel the same way. Contrary to popular belief, NYC is not the greatest utopia for Black Americans. It never was and it never will be.
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