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Old 04-28-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,738 posts, read 2,346,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
As do conservatives; don't they want to "save" the country from Obama right now? And Democrats argue and disagree with each other all the time.



That's a correlation, not a causation. Even under Democratic leadership, the same economic development policy is in place in Southern states; my own state of NC is a good example of that. Most of the time, it's not about low taxes, but a boatload of tax incentives, aka corporate welfare. I think this chart is really good. We need some hard stats here, not just conjecture. Here's a relevant excerpt from this article:
Because there isn't a rope or chain or even steel cable that'll be strong enough to pull that person's head from their 3rd point of contact...I see this malarkey all the time, and the more I see it, frankly the more it p****s me off...

It seems all the folk on 'that side of the aisle' want to do nowadays is to wrap themselves in the flag, beat their chests, scream about taking the country back, and piddle their diapers if anyone darker than a paper bag comes within 10 ft of them (this unfortunately includes the POTUS)...

Which raises an interesting question in and of itself---are ALL supporters of the GOP and 'Tea Party' like that? I would say without a doubt NO...there are just certain elements that carry on like the folks I mentioned in the previous paragraph, and those are the ones whom I wish would shut the frack up sometimes...mainly because, last time I looked, I'm DEFINITELY darker than a paper bag...and quiet as it's kept, it's my country too, and no one's gonna take ANYTHING without me having a voice in it and a vote on it...end of story

 
Old 04-30-2010, 03:38 PM
 
59,604 posts, read 84,440,526 times
Reputation: 13109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
This is why a lot of people can be turned off from Republicans specifically (as they are the party out of power right now), or politics in general. Afonega1 talked about the perceived absurdity of pursuing a law to make English the official language of the land. Instead of maybe giving your views on the subject itself or a related issue like immigration reform, you talk about Obama's golfing outings and not going to the Polish president's funeral due to circumstances beyond his control. I mean, come on, at least engage the subject at hand instead of blatantly digressing.



The South is progressive right now for the same reason that the BRIC nations are progressive: they are rapidly developing and experiencing stronger economic growth because their economies aren't as developed and mature as first world/developed nations. And it's obvious that political orientation isn't a direct cause for that. In many cases here in the South, the taxes are artificially low for businesses because many Southern states don't mind whoring themselves out to the highest corporate bidder. In some (not all) cases they have to import talent because the local labor pool lacks the necessary skills, and then when the incentives dry up, they leave for greener pastures. Corporate welfare/socialism is a major issue in the South. We hate welfare/socialism for private citizens, but love it for multi-billion dollar corporations.
Sad, but true and I call it the "Pimping and Whoring of America". It seems like it gets swept under the rug. That's why I say things like that need to put into proper perspective and we need more small business in this country instead of people just looking for some big company with jobs that probably will leave in a matter of time anyway. Trust me, I live in an area where places that have closed factories have just went overseas, forget about moving to the South or out West.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 13,544,561 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianIvanov View Post
I am in my 20s, I grew up in Moscow and in Brooklyn. I agree that many people in the Northeast especially, do not help each other, but the population is so large it is hard to be helping everybody, it is a much faster way of life and I think people get a negative vibe from that and assume it is just people being rude. But I have never met someone who when you ask him or her for help, they refuse. People will help if you ask for it. I do not like to ask for help when working, but if I am fixing my car (I bought a junky 1969 Camaro and am fixing it in my garage) and I see my neighbor out and I need help with something for a few minutes, even being a Manhattan white collar guy like him he will help me and we have a conversation.
Good points.I do not disagree that it does not happen.Just to a lesser disagree today.


I do not believe in cutting off food stamps, but a friend of mine is a grocery store owner and he has said that people use food stamps for mostly a cart full of junk food. I think the government should be stricter on this issue, allowing items such as bread, fruit, vegetables, and meat... not Twinkies. I also think Republicans value family, friends, and tradition more than liberals, which is very important to me.
I also agree...to an extent.My main disagreement is what you say about Republicans being "more family.friends, and tradition more than liberals".If anything ,Republicans are better at "perpetrating an image" more than actually"


I do not believe Fox news is racist, I think liberals make a lot of that stuff up, nitpicking at every statement said. I have seen Fox News complain about Bush when they believe he was wrong, I have seen them argue with each other too, they are not as strict to have sex with George Bush as liberals are with Barack Obama.
I for one am not a liberal or a conservative.Just me.A person that really believes that in a "free society of men" that all men are equal and held accountable for their actions under the laws provided.Those laws that are supported by mostly Republicans such as denying consenting adults to decide if and when to have an abortion,or not allow whomever to marry whom they wish regardless of sexual orientation, or those same people to be able to serve with valour and honor to fight and defend for our country.Its not about agreeing with or even accepting it.Its about individual freedom.

The other thing is this hatred for a decent man that believes he is doing what is right.Everything in his life in the past shows that.If you want to dislike the man's politics ,then that is fine but to question his humanity is contradictory of what Christian values are suppose to be all about.I am a Christian but I realize that the most evil hateful things I have ever heard have always been someone in or claims to support the Republican Party and " conservative" family values.Since when did that become a liberal trait?

Obama,just like Mccain,is a good man with values.So I guess whose values should we base our laws on?Is there no middle ground?That is why we are here today.

The Majority of Republicans have traditionally ignored blacks and other minorities by rarely visiting , supporting or voicing support of something that can help those that have been traditionally and historically discriminated against.




All Republicans I know support those things. That is outdated to say Republicans are against it. It is 2010, not the 50s.Yes But those things have been ongoing since I have been alive.I'm in my 30's.



Look at Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas... liberal and traffic can be horrible in all of those cities, all with horrible public transportation. If Atlanta becomes dense, same with Houston and Dallas, they will have subways expand for sure.You are blaming public transportation on the wrong people.Most transportation funds are controlled at the federal then state level.Those cities are in states with all Republican Governors.



Barack Obama has no problem wasting time showing up on every television show you can think of, golfing 500 times a month, taking vacations to Hawaii using your tax money, even golfing when he should have been at the Polish President's funeral, though the volcanic ash cancelled his trip... he could have gone to the Polish embassy and paid his respects, but he went golfing. At least Joe Biden had the class to go to the embassy, I respect that, although I truly think he does not care that much other than to do patchwork for Obama's screw up. I feel like Republicans are the only ones who can truly show respect, believing so strong in military service and veterans benefits.
Obama skips Polish funeral, heads to golf course - Washington Times


You know as well as I do why Obama missed that funeral.So you really should stop that nonsense.Obama has not screwed anything up.I don't even blame George Bush for everything.We all know that there are many greedy people in this country and they don't stop being that way do to party affiliation.You must have forgotten how many vacations Bush took to his ranch in Crawford Texas?This man is a family man.It is evident that he loves very much.Its one thing to be jaded ,but another to try and sway people by things that just don't add up.

This is so bogus and here lies the problem.Too many people on extremes side of each are acting as if they know these people.I can tell you as a veteran ,that the amount of money that you see appropriated to the military for quality of life and expanded services where you had to wait to get approval has definitely gotten easier and more visible.Obama administration has really made the V.A. a huge priority.President Obama’s 2010 Spending Plan Initiates Transformation for VA Services - Public and Intergovernmental Affairs
Yet where is FOX?They sure were quick to point out how some veterans were mad about an obscure proposal.They blasted that everywhere.

Fox news has been proven by several nonprofit unbiased sources as the worst in reporting erroneous news more than any other news agency.



I am a devoted Christian, and I do not believe it should be mandatory. I think they should be allowed to pray for whatever they believe. But I strongly believe in the right to bear arms. People need to realize that you can get rid of legal guns from 99% of the time law abiding citizens, but you can not get rid of illegal guns from 99% of the time criminals. And if you take legal guns away, and the only people left are people with illegal guns, how does that make crime ridden neighborhoods safer?I agree.Not sure what the answer is.However I don't wanna be living in the "wild wild west" either.



I disagree, I think the south is so progressive because the Republicans believe that low taxes attracts business and helps the economy prosper, I say this as a business owner myself, New York State taxes almost killed our business.
Lower taxes is good.But what about all these schools in the south that have the high crime rates,lowest test scores,lowest incomes,highest poverty rates?Not saying its all hell down here but it is what it is.Most of the Southern States are Republican ruled.
 
Old 05-26-2010, 09:26 AM
 
50,879 posts, read 47,169,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Lower taxes is good.But what about all these schools in the south that have the high crime rates,lowest test scores,lowest incomes,highest poverty rates?Not saying its all hell down here but it is what it is.Most of the Southern States are Republican ruled.
This is a place where there is a high gap in wealth. I was having a discussion with someone during the election. I found it ironic that the South, which has the highest African-American population out of all of the regions, voted Republican. The states that did vote for Obama(North Carolina, Florida, and Virginia) have Black populations around 20%. Many of the southern states that voted Republican during the election have the highest African-American populations in the USA in terms of percentage(South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana). Many states with very low African-American populations(percentage-wise), many of those states voted for Obama(Colorado, Washington, Minnesota, Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, New Mexico, etc.). I thought about that because most of the African-American voters voted Democrat(Obama).
The person I was debating this with explained it this way: According to him, the former slave states were the states voting Republican in large numbers(as far as the South goes).
 
Old 05-26-2010, 10:20 AM
 
59,604 posts, read 84,440,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
This is a place where there is a high gap in wealth. I was having a discussion with someone during the election. I found it ironic that the South, which has the highest African-American population out of all of the regions, voted Republican. The states that did vote for Obama(North Carolina, Florida, and Virginia) have Black populations around 20%. Many of the southern states that voted Republican during the election have the highest African-American populations in the USA in terms of percentage(South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana). Many states with very low African-American populations(percentage-wise), many of those states voted for Obama(Colorado, Washington, Minnesota, Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, New Mexico, etc.). I thought about that because most of the African-American voters voted Democrat(Obama).
The person I was debating this with explained it this way: According to him, the former slave states were the states voting Republican in large numbers(as far as the South goes).
You also have to think about the irony in that those same Southern states were big Democrat states when that party was similar to the current Republican climate in those states. Those Democrats were called "Dixiecrats" due to having a stronger connection to the "way of life" of the South versus the actual party itself.

Also, the Southern states that voted for Obama have a lot of Northern transplants. So, that doesn't surprise me and many are coming from highly Democratic states.

With states like Colorado, Iowa, Washington and Minnesota, those states don't surprise me in terms of the fact that the biggest city in each of those states have had Black mayors before. So, it's not like they are new to electing Black political leadership.
 
Old 05-26-2010, 12:19 PM
 
50,879 posts, read 47,169,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
You also have to think about the irony in that those same Southern states were big Democrat states when that party was similar to the current Republican climate in those states. Those Democrats were called "Dixiecrats" due to having a stronger connection to the "way of life" of the South versus the actual party itself.

Also, the Southern states that voted for Obama have a lot of Northern transplants. So, that doesn't surprise me and many are coming from highly Democratic states.

With states like Colorado, Iowa, Washington and Minnesota, those states don't surprise me in terms of the fact that the biggest city in each of those states have had Black mayors before. So, it's not like they are new to electing Black political leadership.
The Dixiecrat factor is something to think about. Dixiecrats were big in the South. There is one time when the Democrats were different from Republicans. It was FDR. FDR created the New Deal. This was part of why the South came out of economic problems. FDR was not a Dixiecrat either. However, many southern politicians did exploit a very bigoted way of thinking. African-Americans made up the majority of the population in many places in the South. Many White residents felt like Blacks needed to "know their place". This is how Dixiecrat politics got their start. It was a way to control the Black population. Outside of the South, it wasn't so much like that. There were bigoted laws all over the USA, but the South used Jim Crow laws. When the Civil Rights Act was put into law, the Southern states stopped voting Democrat. It was a Democrat, LBJ, who signed the act. This pattern became more pronounced in the Reagan years. Reagan himself said that the Voting Rights act was a "humiliation to the South". The shift from Democrat to Republican in the South might be due, in part, to racial issues. Most Blacks in the South are voting Democrat while most Whites in the South are voting Republican. That is just my theory on things.
 
Old 05-26-2010, 07:05 PM
 
59,604 posts, read 84,440,526 times
Reputation: 13109
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
The Dixiecrat factor is something to think about. Dixiecrats were big in the South. There is one time when the Democrats were different from Republicans. It was FDR. FDR created the New Deal. This was part of why the South came out of economic problems. FDR was not a Dixiecrat either. However, many southern politicians did exploit a very bigoted way of thinking. African-Americans made up the majority of the population in many places in the South. Many White residents felt like Blacks needed to "know their place". This is how Dixiecrat politics got their start. It was a way to control the Black population. Outside of the South, it wasn't so much like that. There were bigoted laws all over the USA, but the South used Jim Crow laws. When the Civil Rights Act was put into law, the Southern states stopped voting Democrat. It was a Democrat, LBJ, who signed the act. This pattern became more pronounced in the Reagan years. Reagan himself said that the Voting Rights act was a "humiliation to the South". The shift from Democrat to Republican in the South might be due, in part, to racial issues. Most Blacks in the South are voting Democrat while most Whites in the South are voting Republican. That is just my theory on things.
This is basically it in a nutshell.....
 
Old 05-26-2010, 07:14 PM
 
50,879 posts, read 47,169,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
This is basically it in a nutshell.....
True, but it would be very hard to convince alot of people of that. There is a strong connection between politics and race in the South. Few people will ever mention it, especially in metropolitan Atlanta. I think it has to do with the slogan "The City Too Busy To Hate". My thoughts are that many people don't want to mention these things because it contradicts Atlanta's slogan.
 
Old 05-27-2010, 10:35 PM
 
50,879 posts, read 47,169,209 times
Reputation: 15982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Sad, but true and I call it the "Pimping and Whoring of America". It seems like it gets swept under the rug. That's why I say things like that need to put into proper perspective and we need more small business in this country instead of people just looking for some big company with jobs that probably will leave in a matter of time anyway. Trust me, I live in an area where places that have closed factories have just went overseas, forget about moving to the South or out West.
The North isn't the only place shutting down factories either. There were alot of textile mills in North Carolina. Many of them have shut down as well. I think you put the correct description to it.
 
Old 05-27-2010, 11:07 PM
 
1,604 posts, read 3,553,147 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
The North isn't the only place shutting down factories either. There were alot of textile mills in North Carolina. Many of them have shut down as well. I think you put the correct description to it.
But as least for North Carolina, the factories are being replaced by research centers/labs and high-tech facilities. Don't feel too bad for NC. The Rust-Belt North (with a few exceptions) on the other hand....
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