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Old 11-15-2009, 10:10 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,913,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
Washington D.C. and Baltimore? Maryland is not one of the Mid-Atlantic states, nor is D.C. Obviously people in Pennsylvania will identify more with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh before they identify with New York City, but it doesn't change the economic reality of what dominates the Mid-Atlantic states (in terms of cities). Buffalo? I don't think anyone except those who actually live in Buffalo identify it as their city. It's mostly known for the wings in its namesake and just generally being rundown and depressing.

I rarely go to NYC in general (although ironically I was there last night, couldn't wait to get back home), even though my county in Northern NJ is classified as part of the NYC metropolitan area.

I guess in an ideal world it would be fantastic for CT'ers to identify with Hartford over Boston, but in reality, I've been to Hartford, as I have family in Rocky Hill, about 1/2 hour away, and it is an uninspiring, rundown city. This is not to bash Connecticut as I actually enjoy many areas within the state, but the cities are mostly trash (Similar to NJ). I like New Haven though.
Hmmm, Maryland is not Mid-Atlantic?

But again, New York City might be the largest city in the Mid-Atlantic, indeed the entire Northeast, but that does not mean it the "capital" and demand loyalty from the rest of the region. If they choose, people only 25, 50, 100, 200 miles away can avoid New York City and be quite happy. Same could be said for any other city.

I am still wondering why you think Connecticut people should support Boston, the capital city of Massachusetts over building up their own Connecticut cities. I believe you said a few posts back it would spiteful to one's own state and illogical to do that.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
657 posts, read 1,311,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Hmmm, Maryland is not Mid-Atlantic?

But again, New York City might be the largest city in the Mid-Atlantic, indeed the entire Northeast, but that does not mean it the "capital" and demand loyalty from the rest of the region. If they choose, people only 25, 50, 100, 200 miles away can avoid New York City and be quite happy. Same could be said for any other city.

I am still wondering why you think Connecticut people should support Boston, the capital city of Massachusetts over building up their own Connecticut cities. I believe you said a few posts back it would spiteful to one's own state and illogical to do that.
Agreed, Maryland, DC, Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware definitely comprise the Mid-Atlantic region.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I'm originally from Connecticut myself and now live in the DC area. As a lapsed Catholic who is socially liberal, I'm currently trying to convince my parents to move out of the Atlanta area and back up North to DC or Connecticut (their home). Their tolerant views have been changed by their ultra-conservative neighbors in the Atlanta area.

It's interesting to read on C-D that my upbringing in New England contributed to the emphasis I place on community and education.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:13 PM
 
1,645 posts, read 3,193,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Hmmm, Maryland is not Mid-Atlantic?

But again, New York City might be the largest city in the Mid-Atlantic, indeed the entire Northeast, but that does not mean it the "capital" and demand loyalty from the rest of the region. If they choose, people only 25, 50, 100, 200 miles away can avoid New York City and be quite happy. Same could be said for any other city.

I am still wondering why you think Connecticut people should support Boston, the capital city of Massachusetts over building up their own Connecticut cities. I believe you said a few posts back it would spiteful to one's own state and illogical to do that.
The U.S. Census Bureau divides the U.S. into nine distinct regions and considers the Mid-Atlantic to be comprised of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York. Delaware and Maryland are considered part of the South Atlantic, which continues on to Virginia and down to Florida.

I don't neccessarily think that Connecticut residents should have any "loyalty" to Boston. What I was saying is that it can't be denied that Boston is the economic capital of New England, and as such, a great deal in the region revolves around it. I've known several folks from New Hampshire who commuted to Boston and while their loyalties are obviously to their own state, they couldn't escape Boston's significance. Personally, I have no love for big cities (Though I do prefer Boston a great deal over NYC).

I think CT'ers don't really care about building up their cities any more than we do here in NJ. Connecticut is probably the most economically and racially polarized state I've ever been to, and it's ingrained in their culture (Read up on the history of Darien and the "sundown towns" of the NE). The yuppies living in Greenwich or Madison don't give a fig about downtown Hartford. Even in New Haven (probably my favorite city in CT), the class divide is so clear it's blinding. You have the centers of high learning, such as the Peabody museum and the Yale campus, and the second you step away from a certain area, it might as well be Camden.
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:16 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,549,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
The U.S. Census Bureau divides the U.S. into nine distinct regions and considers the Mid-Atlantic to be comprised of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York. Delaware and Maryland are considered part of the South Atlantic, which continues on to Virginia and down to Florida.

I don't neccessarily think that Connecticut residents should have any "loyalty" to Boston. What I was saying is that it can't be denied that Boston is the economic capital of New England, and as such, a great deal in the region revolves around it. I've known several folks from New Hampshire who commuted to Boston and while their loyalties are obviously to their own state, they couldn't escape Boston's significance. Personally, I have no love for big cities (Though I do prefer Boston a great deal over NYC).

I think CT'ers don't really care about building up their cities any more than we do here in NJ. Connecticut is probably the most economically and racially polarized state I've ever been to, and it's ingrained in their culture (Read up on the history of Darien and the "sundown towns" of the NE). The yuppies living in Greenwich or Madison don't give a fig about downtown Hartford. Even in New Haven (probably my favorite city in CT), the class divide is so clear it's blinding. You have the centers of high learning, such as the Peabody museum and the Yale campus, and the second you step away from a certain area, it might as well be Camden.
Wow, that's the first I've heard of that. I've never been to New England. Are you saying that for instance a black person cannot count on living in New England and simply being treated as a "person"? I've heard that the class distinctions are deep in NE, but what of the racial distinctions?

Great thread. I have my popcorn and I'm enjoying the dialogue here.
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:33 AM
 
1,645 posts, read 3,193,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Wow, that's the first I've heard of that. I've never been to New England. Are you saying that for instance a black person cannot count on living in New England and simply being treated as a "person"? I've heard that the class distinctions are deep in NE, but what of the racial distinctions?

Great thread. I have my popcorn and I'm enjoying the dialogue here.
Well, I'm not black, and I've never lived in Connecticut, so my opinion/analysis can by no means be taken as expert fact, but from what I have seen, "social" segregation exists on a wide scale in CT. Connecticut is not an overwhelmingly white state in the way the way that Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire are. Its cities are filled with urban minorities. It's suburbs are...quite the opposite. Not that it's neccessarily a negative thing for blacks to live in the cities or whites in the suburbs, but I believe a level of separatist ideology is ingrained in CT's culture and history. This doesn't seem to exist to such a great extent in the northern New England states (ME, NH, VT) because they are the three whitest states in the nation (in that order, I believe), but it seems to lead to a lot of social problems in CT. And I'm not talking about good 'ol boy folksy racism as seen in the Mississippi Delta. I'm talking about an inability for CT's cities to improve their image or seek outside support, a general sense of apathy from CT's suburbanites, and a very insulated hush-hush mentality when discussing issues of race in Connecticut, as if cracking a black joke is obscene/not politically acceptable, but the notion of blacks living in urban poverty and whites sticking to CT's more prestigious areas is just an accepted fate.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:17 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,660 times
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This is so entertaining that I had to post a comment here.

I live in Brooklyn and have lived in Norwalk, CT and grew up in Manhattan. I went to college in Boston so can give a firsthand viewpoint of the New York v New England thing.

Let me start off by saying, while much of Connecticut has a utopian feel, it is very much the hyper-aggressive money culture of NYC with a Waspy flare. The population in Connecticut quietly associate with New York but while in the city, make it well-known that they live in Connecticut, "the land afar of the privileged".

When I lived and worked in Norwalk, one of Connecticut's inner cities, the blatant disregard for anyone who doesn't have money or cannot afford the upper crust lifestyle is disheartening at best. There are two Connecticuts: Those who make the big bucks (or have it passed down from previous generations, which is common up there), and those who serve the population with the big bucks. The latter are forced to live in multiplicity throughout the ghetto of the inner cities, and those they serve are keeping them there.

Whoever said CT is a big "hush, hush" state is very accurate. They claim they are so accepting and open-minded, yet don't allow their children to drive through Norwalk in their BMW on the way home from the mall. There is an invisible ceiling that prevents those in Connecticut's inner cities from achievment, as the already wealthy districts suck all of the funding from the budget, leaving those cities with dilapidated buildings and little or no resources. Why, one may ask? Because if they get an education and move up, who will mow the lawns or blow the leaves, or work at Starbucks?

Connecticut is a state like none other. Richest of the rich, and poorest of the poor. I left while I could. It is not typical New England. It is faux New England with money pouring in from all over the world. And one wonders why the state is so corrupt.
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Coastal Northeast
16,738 posts, read 23,177,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notcheapsoileft View Post
This is so entertaining that I had to post a comment here.

I live in Brooklyn and have lived in Norwalk, CT and grew up in Manhattan. I went to college in Boston so can give a firsthand viewpoint of the New York v New England thing.

Let me start off by saying, while much of Connecticut has a utopian feel, it is very much the hyper-aggressive money culture of NYC with a Waspy flare. The population in Connecticut quietly associate with New York but while in the city, make it well-known that they live in Connecticut, "the land afar of the privileged".

When I lived and worked in Norwalk, one of Connecticut's inner cities, the blatant disregard for anyone who doesn't have money or cannot afford the upper crust lifestyle is disheartening at best. There are two Connecticuts: Those who make the big bucks (or have it passed down from previous generations, which is common up there), and those who serve the population with the big bucks. The latter are forced to live in multiplicity throughout the ghetto of the inner cities, and those they serve are keeping them there.

Whoever said CT is a big "hush, hush" state is very accurate. They claim they are so accepting and open-minded, yet don't allow their children to drive through Norwalk in their BMW on the way home from the mall. There is an invisible ceiling that prevents those in Connecticut's inner cities from achievment, as the already wealthy districts suck all of the funding from the budget, leaving those cities with dilapidated buildings and little or no resources. Why, one may ask? Because if they get an education and move up, who will mow the lawns or blow the leaves, or work at Starbucks?

Connecticut is a state like none other. Richest of the rich, and poorest of the poor. I left while I could. It is not typical New England. It is faux New England with money pouring in from all over the world. And one wonders why the state is so corrupt.
This post is BS.

You've obviously never been anywhere other than the wealthy NYC suburbs in CT. Much of CT is middle class.
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
1,305 posts, read 1,256,320 times
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I've enjoyed this thread tremendously which is why I'm giving it a bump. A few thoughts:

First off, I'm a native Mass resident, born in Billerica, MA, but I've also lived in Brookline and Cambridge, MA, Burlington VT and Hamden, CT (and many other place outside New England the the US). I've noticed since I'm currently living outside of the US that I identify more with New England than I do with the US. I think that that comes from my other travels around the US. Something about the region is just different. Yes, much of CT identifies with NYC, but I can also remember living in Burlington, VT and (other than sports teams) they seemed to be more focuses on the state of VT than New England as a whole.

As for CT, yes the the Southwestern corner is heavily influenced by NYC, many of the smaller towns in there resemble New England style towns in other parts of the region. Actually, the part I hate about CT the most is the Hartford area because it reminds me of the suburban sprawl I've seen throughout the Midwest and South....I hate that! If we're going to keep arguing that CT isn't part of New England, then we should also make the case that Vermont and Maine are in two different regions...The two states don't border each other, the accents are different and Maine has a nice coast where Vermont has beautiful mountains and rolling hills (better than Maine's in my opinion). But there are certain things that tie our region together: maybe it's the quiet and direct manner when we speak (I go nuts listening to loud New Yorkers and Midwesterners)? Maybe it's our loyalty to our towns and not counties? Maybe it's our low crime rates? Maybe it's the fact that we're the least religious part of the country? Maybe it's the fact that even the religious people there don't try to shove it down our throats? I don't know, but New England is a beautiful region and I love it very much. Go Patriots!
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:14 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 2,050,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
a very insulated hush-hush mentality when discussing issues of race in Connecticut, as if cracking a black joke is obscene/not politically acceptable
Not the case in Rhode Island!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolehboleh View Post
maybe it's the quiet and direct manner when we speak (I go nuts listening to loud New Yorkers and Midwesterners)?
Direct? Passive-aggressive is more like it. New Yorkers are direct.

Also, quiet? Huh?! Doubt you've spent much time in Rhode Island, either.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:36 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,489,906 times
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It's different because PA, NY, NJ and DE was a dutch territory when the English settled New England.
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