U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-10-2009, 08:50 AM
 
7,592 posts, read 9,442,547 times
Reputation: 8949

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Gee, considering your truculent knowledge of New England…I thought you were the expert (lol).



Another false hood. The values of education, and social tolerance have little to do with Northern New England. Statistically, long time residents are neither educated nor social tolerant. The real reason why northern New England is slowly changing is increased number of expiates from the urban Northeast corridor (DC to Boston, and especially the Tri-State area) are slowly changed the Yankee mindset of isolated Northern New England. Unlike you, I have done several studies on the demographics of northern New England…and words like education and social tolerance are quite a stretch. This area has only changed because the influences from points south. By the way… self-reliance is a common rural trait: Go to Montana or Wyoming and you’ll see. Northern New England has no market on self-reliance (lol).



I’m not really sure what your point is? The Irish/Italian communities in places like CT/RI and parts of MA…are similar to Irish or Italian –American communities anywhere in the USA. If by “local culture”, you mean they become a hybrid of Yankee/English – Irish/Italian traditions…nothing could be further from the truth! The Irish strongholds in MA and Italian dominated southern CT have taken “little or nothing” from the Yankee cultural ways. Also, you seem to be under the false impression that the Irish and Italian-Americans are newcomers to places like CT/RI and parts of MA: The Irish arrived almost 120 years ago (1880’s) and many of the Italians (around 1900)…they “are” the local culture. A stone wall on someone’s property in CT or RI doesn’t give they Yankee culture (lol). The Irish dominate politics in CT/RI/and parts of metro MA…the Yankee/English “local cultural influence” is about zero.



Your point is folly…what historical links? The culture of CT and large parts of MA/RI share little or no social/historical links with Yankee/english/New England ways. A stone wall in front of a house in CT dosn't mean people in CT have a cultural link with New England Yankees. One of the oldest African-American settlements on the US mainland is in New Haven, CT Newhallville area. There has been a African community here for almost 200 years, with strong ties to the Gullas in the low country of South Carolina and Georgia. Are people in Connecticut cutural tied to the cutural of the Lowcountry of South Carolina? Your point is absurd. Historical links based on who's perspective?



By the way..there is no such thing as NYC culture (lol). What there is “Metropolitan culture”. Despite the myths out there today…many urban/suburban regions of the USA have congealed into massive metro’s… where the local historical culture has been obliterated by time and expansion.

In 1961, French geographer published a monumental study after 20 years of research from Washington DC to Boston, MA. Gottmann’s book and research showed that the region from Washington DC to Boston, MA had become one urbanized/suburbanized corridor. This is where the term “Megalopolis” was first used. The “dominant theme” in Megalopolis was the interconnections between the Northeastern Atlantic States (now known as the I-95 states). He augured that the cultural identity of the DC to Boston corridor had been obliterated by this urban/suburban growth. This was in 1961. Google it.



Not real sure what Minnesota has to do with anything? You asserted that the New England states share a very similar climate…scientifically this is untrue. Connecticut and Rhode Island have a climate closer to NJ than to the Northern New England region. I’m not real sure what that has to do with Minnesota (lol).



Well, I think what might have made me think that was when I read lines like this that you wrote...“In my original post, I did not address the problematic case of Connecticut”...

How is Connecticut a problem? Is it possible that the diversity of Connecticut is really the way it’s supposed to be. In fact, we think of it in the reverse… the problematic case of economic, socially, and culturally, isolated Northern New England. Perhaps there was more to this statement than meets the eye?

PS. Attempting to try to get others to line up with you in a debate only shows the weakness in your position. Just keep that in mind (lol).
So long-time residents of VT, NH, and ME are not "educated or tolerant"?

How would you know? You've never even visited, let alone lived, in any of these places. I'll willing to bet that you've never been to Montana or the Dakotas, either. Don't let real life invade this self-made "ivory tower" of yours; otherwise, your ridiculous assertions may be proven false.

You have an agenda against northern New England. Did someone from these states hit you with a snowball? Based upon your rants here, I'd say that he was quite justified. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

It's also quite easy to "line up" others in a debate against you--all you have to do is open your mouth..

Your Greyhound bus awaits you. I wouldn't want a fragile person such as you to get a little chilly, since it's apparent that even a winter in southern CT is too much for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,945 posts, read 22,255,374 times
Reputation: 9051
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Another false hood. The values of education, and social tolerance have little to do with Northern New England. Statistically, long time residents are neither educated nor social tolerant. The real reason why northern New England is slowly changing is increased number of expiates from the urban Northeast corridor (DC to Boston, and especially the Tri-State area) are slowly changed the Yankee mindset of isolated Northern New England. Unlike you, I have done several studies on the demographics of northern New England…and words like education and social tolerance are quite a stretch. This area has only changed because the influences from points south. By the way… self-reliance is a common rural trait: Go to Montana or Wyoming and you’ll see. Northern New England has no market on self-reliance (lol).
Hmm, I'm from Northern VT, that barren, cold place as you refer to it, and I beg to differ with you. Education has always been important in Northern New England, as with the rest of New England. That atttitude began with the early settlers who wanted everyone able to read and write...to study the Bible. Later the reason was an educated person will be less prone to being fooled by tyrants. Vermont was the first state to have public education mandated by the Constitution of the state.

I don't know what gives you the impression Northern New Englanders are a bunch of backwoods uneducated rednecks but you are far from the truth. In even the most rural spot in Northern VT, NH or ME you'll find nearly everyone has graduated high school and more will have college degrees than not.

And regarding tolerance: considering the bunch of socialist, and often rude and criminal, hippies who invaded Vermont years ago were left alone and tolerated, to the detriment of the state in fact...I think you are far from the truth on that, too.

You claim to ahve studied NNE extensively, yet you haven't stepped foot North of RI in about 30 years? You can't understand a place you haven't stepped foot in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 11:24 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,085 posts, read 11,449,721 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
You claim to ahve studied NNE extensively, yet you haven't stepped foot North of RI in about 30 years? You can't understand a place you haven't stepped foot in.
That stood out to me, too. I'll take it a step further than that and say that in order to really understand a place you have to live there for a while as well. Visiting is one thing, living is something else entirely.

No offense, wavehunter007, but that revelation pretty much undermines the credibility of your entire argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,945 posts, read 22,255,374 times
Reputation: 9051
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostoner View Post
That stood out to me, too. I'll take it a step further than that and say that in order to really understand a place you have to live there for a while as well. Visiting is one thing, living is something else entirely.

No offense, wavehunter007, but that revelation pretty much undermines the credibility of your entire argument.
Quite true. An outside visitor may not even notice the differences between, say, the Northeast Kingdom and central or Southern Vermont...but living in the different areas will show a person how different they truly are culturally. I'm from the NEK, central and Southern VT is like an entirely different state as far as culture, politics, etc., go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 01:40 PM
 
79 posts, read 138,266 times
Reputation: 90
Go to a parking lot for a redsox or patroits game to disprove wavehunter's argument
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Coastal Northeast
16,728 posts, read 23,147,812 times
Reputation: 5844
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstn421 View Post
Go to a parking lot for a redsox or patroits game to disprove wavehunter's argument
Are you saying this because you see a few CT license plates?

I think wavehunter's point is that *most* CT residents look toward NY over Boston for mostly everything. Don't think that I agree with everything in his posts, because I certainly disagree with much of what he is saying. But when it comes to city associations, NY is definitely the stronghold in CT, as him and numerous other CT residents have pointed out. The New Englander in CT is definitely holding on tightly, but is losing their grasp quickly.

In addition, I wouldn't consider folks from CT to be like the Mid-Atlantic (PA, NJ, Long Island). They're a different breed in CT - they think they're more "polished", if you will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,131 posts, read 9,898,127 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography Freak View Post
I think we all agree that New England is one of the most distinctive regions in the country, but what exactly makes it culturally different to other Northeastern states like New York or Pennsylvania?

Discuss.
I was thinking about this today. Its hard to pinpoint what exactly makes New England different because there is "more than one New England" For instance lets look at my state, which most would aggree is "fairly diverse", LOL.

New York State borders on 8 neighbors:
2 Canadian Provinces
2 Mid Atlantic States
4 New England States*

New York borders more New England states than any other state except Massachusetts, which also borders 4. It would stand to reason that New York has some cultural effect on New England and vice versa.

1. Connecticut borders 2 NE states and New York
2. Maine borders one NE state and 2 or 3 provinces*
3. Massachusetts borders 4 NE states and New York
4. New Hampshire borders 3 NE states and Quebec
5. Rhode Island borders 2 NE states and New York*
6. Vermont borders 2 NE states, Quebec and New York

Now here is my question and its not just New York State.

Do you think that Vermont looks more like Washington, Columbia & Saratoga Counties, Plattsburgh, the Adirondacks etc. or does it look more like Providence, Hartford, Lowell, etc?

Do you think suburban parts of New England are more similar to Bucks County PA, Morris, Somerset, Mercer Counties NJ, Dutchess, Ulster & Westchester Counties NY, etc or are they more similar to the White Mountains and the North Woods of Maine?

Is Maine more similar to New Brunswick & Nova Scotia or is it more similar to Connecticut and Rhode Island?

I think you see my point. New England is not monotholic and is a very diverse intersting area and there are major differences WITHIN New England. So some parts of New England are actually more similar to their neighbors than to other New England states.



*New York (Long Island) borders Rhode Island by water. Maine may also border Nova Scotia by water, I am not sure.

Last edited by LINative; 11-10-2009 at 07:20 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,131 posts, read 9,898,127 times
Reputation: 6423
Talking Different breed....

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidyankee764 View Post
Are you saying this because you see a few CT license plates?

I think wavehunter's point is that *most* CT residents look toward NY over Boston for mostly everything. Don't think that I agree with everything in his posts, because I certainly disagree with much of what he is saying. But when it comes to city associations, NY is definitely the stronghold in CT, as him and numerous other CT residents have pointed out. The New Englander in CT is definitely holding on tightly, but is losing their grasp quickly.

In addition, I wouldn't consider folks from CT to be like the Mid-Atlantic (PA, NJ, Long Island). They're a different breed in CT - they think they're more "polished", if you will.
Kidyankee, not talking about you but for the life of me, I do not understand why people in Connecticut cannot like both New England and NYC at the same time. Does not seem so complicated to me.

As for your remark; "they're a dfferent breed in CT" and "and they think they're more polished" remark, FORTUNATELY not all of Connecticut is like that!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,275,676 times
Reputation: 569
My 2 cents:

I'm most familiar with Connecticut and it feels more like a "clean" version of New Jersey rather than another Massachusetts, mostly in the Southern suburban portion of the state (Bridgeport, New Haven). I still consider it a New England state though, not least because of it's size and doesn't have the "tough" character of the Mid-Atlantic states (no Newarks, Brooklyns, Phillies, or Baltimores). Hartford feels like a cross between Mid-Atlantic and New England. I've never been to Northern New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont), but I've been to Providence, and Boston a number of times. Both seem different from Hartford or any other city in Connecticut in terms of character.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Coastal Northeast
16,728 posts, read 23,147,812 times
Reputation: 5844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Kidyankee, not talking about you but for the life of me, I do not understand why people in Connecticut cannot like both New England and NYC at the same time. Does not seem so complicated to me.

As for your remark; "they're a dfferent breed in CT" and "and they think they're more polished" remark, FORTUNATELY not all of Connecticut is like that!!!
Oh, absolutely! I completely agree. CT is New England, but much of the state is a different New England than what most believe. Think lots of trees, stone walls with white fences built on top of them (Had trouble uploading the pic so see below), colonial homes with 1 acre of land and, again, lots of trees.

There are tons of middle class suburbs in CT (Milford, East Haven, Manchester, Bethel, Prospect). That said, there are just as many towns in CT that think they're better than the world in nearly every aspect. They are mostly along the shoreline, but they are still plentiful in the Litchfield Hills area and the Hartford area.

Many towns in extreme eastern CT (where Wavehunter is from) are working class and a bit more rural, but unfortunately these are sparsely populated. The vast majority of the population in CT is located in the incredibly pretentious area closer to NYC.

Now don't get me wrong, I do love Connecticut and think it is a great, beautiful state that has a high standard of living. But when I moved away, I realized how incredibly.....corny?.... people are there. It is truly the setting of a mixture of Stepford Wives and Desperate Housewives. No really, it is. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
My 2 cents:

I'm most familiar with Connecticut and it feels more like a "clean" version of New Jersey rather than another Massachusetts, mostly in the Southern suburban portion of the state (Bridgeport, New Haven). I still consider it a New England state though, not least because of it's size and doesn't have the "tough" character of the Mid-Atlantic states (no Newarks, Brooklyns, Phillies, or Baltimores). Hartford feels like a cross between Mid-Atlantic and New England. I've never been to Northern New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont), but I've been to Providence, and Boston a number of times. Both seem different from Hartford or any other city in Connecticut in terms of character.
Actually, there are plenty of "tough" cities in CT. Bridgeport, Hartford, Norwalk, New Haven, Waterbury are all rough inner cities that are close to 90% minority where opportunities are, unfortunately, much less than the incredibly wealthy, 98% white suburbs a few miles away. The disparity between rich and poor in CT is the largest I've seen anywhere on the planet - and I'm fairly well-traveled.


Sorry to go off topic. But one thing I said should lay this out well to those who don't know CT well - that the vast majority of CT's population lies within the NYC metro area. This is certainly why so many identify with NYC over New England.
Attached Thumbnails
What makes New England different?-fence_on_stone_wall.jpg  

Last edited by kidyankee764; 11-10-2009 at 08:40 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top