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Old 11-13-2009, 08:58 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,319,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Men have sex with other men in prison simply because there are no women to have sex with. They're not gay, they just decide that having sex with another man is better than not having sex at all.
That's not a good reason...there are people throughout the world that go for years without having sex. It's an excuse, nothing more.

"Yeah, I had sex with this turtle because I couldn't get a woman to have sex with me..."
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington
2,317 posts, read 6,908,282 times
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^^^ It's not necessarily one or the other... Sexual attraction vs. domination. It could be both. It depends on the individual. Sure, there are cases of people coming out in prison, but a lot of times it's just a matter of domination. But anyway...

I think that the wealth correlation doesn't necessarily apply to all situations. Eugene, Oregon for example is a rather blue-collar town and not "affluent" in the national context by any means, but is overall very tolerant and even accepting of alternative "lifestyles" and people of diverse ways of being.

Someone mentioned San Francisco as having the largest number of hate crimes in the Bay Area (and also one of the highest in the country if I recall). Want to know why this is? Because people there feel comfortable enough reporting these crimes to the police, more comfortable than they would feel reporting it in Podunk, Alabama. Also California actually takes statistics of hate crimes that are based on sexual orientation unlike most states in the country, mainly in the Midwest, South, and Mountain West. In these places, hate crimes based on sexual orientation and gender identity often go unreported.

DeaconJ said something about people in general not batting an eye, not just people in Manhattan. That is so very clearly false. People WILL bat an eye in most places. If you are walking down the street of a small town or city ghetto area, as a man, holding another man's hand, you are going to get stared at, yelled at, verbally harassed, or at the very least get startled looks. To a slightly lesser extent this rule also applies to a woman holding hands with another woman, but American society seems to have a bit of a double-standard for men and women when it comes to homosexuality. The macho patriarchic male-centric American culture is to blame for that, in large part.

Also, to DeaconJ and whomever else might be wondering... There are men who have consensual sex with other men (and likewise women who have sex with other women) who are not considered gay. They're bisexual. Sexuality really is a spectrum... Like most issues, it's not black or white.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:06 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,319,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
^^^ It's not necessarily one or the other... Sexual attraction vs. domination. It could be both. It depends on the individual. Sure, there are cases of people coming out in prison, but a lot of times it's just a matter of domination. But anyway...

I think that the wealth correlation doesn't necessarily apply to all situations. Eugene, Oregon for example is a rather blue-collar town and not "affluent" in the national context by any means, but is overall very tolerant and even accepting of alternative "lifestyles" and people of diverse ways of being.

Someone mentioned San Francisco as having the largest number of hate crimes in the Bay Area (and also one of the highest in the country if I recall). Want to know why this is? Because people there feel comfortable enough reporting these crimes to the police, more comfortable than they would feel reporting it in Podunk, Alabama. Also California actually takes statistics of hate crimes that are based on sexual orientation unlike most states in the country, mainly in the Midwest, South, and Mountain West.

DeaconJ said something about people in general not batting an eye, not just people in Manhattan. That is so very clearly false. People WILL bat an eye in most places. If you are walking down the street of a small town or city ghetto area, as a man, holding another man's hand, you are going to get stared at, yelled at, verbally harassed, or at the very least get startled looks. To a slightly lesser extent this rule also applies to a woman holding hands with another woman, but American society seems to have a bit of a double-standard for men and women when it comes to homosexuality. The macho patriarchic male-centric American culture is to blame for that, in large part.

Also, to DeaconJ and whomever else might be wondering... There are men who have consensual sex with other men (and likewise women who have sex with other women) who are not considered gay. They're bisexual. Sexuality really is a spectrum... Like most issues, it's not black or white.
Those are men who can't admit that they're gay...calling themselves "bisexual" makes it not quite so bad - in their minds. Show me a man with a boyfriend who cheats on him with a woman and I'll believe in bisexuality.

Most people everywhere won't bat an eye at a same-sex couple...some will, but the majority won't. I really think that the times have changed THAT much. More people won't care than will care.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,779,615 times
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I've heard that lots of men turn gay in prison for survival. If a dude rapes another dude in prison; it's most likely sexual frustration. I doubt it has anything to do with a secret fantasy of having prison sex.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington
2,317 posts, read 6,908,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Those are men who can't admit that they're gay...calling themselves "bisexual" makes it not quite so bad - in their minds. Show me a man with a boyfriend who cheats on him with a woman and I'll believe in bisexuality.

Most people everywhere won't bat an eye at a same-sex couple...some will, but the majority won't. I really think that the times have changed THAT much. More people won't care than will care.
For the first part of your response, I know of several men who have left their boyfriends for women. Yes, there are a lot of bisexual men who claim to be so just to make it easier to swallow the fact that they are gay. Anecdotal evidence, but I've seen it with my own eyes... It's not a myth as far as most people I know of are concerned. As for me, I have happily been in faithful, monogamous relationships with both men and women, with no desire to cheat on them regardless of their gender. But that's just me.

For the second part... Most people everywhere? How are you able to judge that? I can't say that I have been everywhere to judge that the times HAVEN'T changed that much, but in my own experience people WILL stare. If you are just having lunch, talking, etc, no one cares. But if you go to embrace your same-sex partner, hold their hand, etc., they WILL stare. The miniscule minority will make comments, but I'd believe THAT is rare no matter where you go in the U.S.

I don't think the times have changed that much, though. I realize that government legislation often lags behind the views of the people, but despite that, why does the national map on LGBT employment discrimination STILL look like this:

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Old 11-13-2009, 09:39 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,319,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
I've heard that lots of men turn gay in prison for survival. If a dude rapes another dude in prison; it's most likely sexual frustration. I doubt it has anything to do with a secret fantasy of having prison sex.
So when you're sexually frustrated do you turn to other men for sex? Just curious...beacause that's what you're saying happens when straight men don't have a woman available. I don't quite believe that.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:42 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,319,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
For the second part... Most people everywhere? How are you able to judge that? I can't say that I have been everywhere to judge that the times HAVEN'T changed that much, but in my own experience people WILL stare. If you are just having lunch, talking, etc, no one cares. But if you go to embrace your same-sex partner, hold their hand, etc., they WILL stare. The miniscule minority will make comments, but I'd believe THAT is rare no matter where you go in the U.S.

I don't think the times have changed that much, though. I realize that government legislation often lags behind the views of the people, but despite that, why does the national map on LGBT employment discrimination STILL look like this:
Of course, I'm speaking of most people everywhere that I've been...I don't speak about things that I have no experience with. And I thought we were talking about assaults, no stares. Who cares if someone stares at you? I usually take a stare as a compliment, not as an assault.

I'm interested to to see the map or whatever you meant to post...but again, I thought the discussion was about assaults and not about employment discrimination.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,855 posts, read 19,639,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
I thought so too...it's akin to, "If could have any terminal illness, which one would it be?"
I hear ya! I wish we had a -1 rep button for every stupid thread or comment someone made.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,624,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
So when you're sexually frustrated do you turn to other men for sex? Just curious...beacause that's what you're saying happens when straight men don't have a woman available. I don't quite believe that.
Well whether you believe it or not that's what happens. This kind of behaviour has also been observed in various species of animals, like Bonobos, and walruses (who 'mate' with other males when the females are not in season).

I can understand the high number of anti-gay crimes in the Bay Area, as there are simply so many gay people that (a) some people are frustrated/intolerant of them, and there are far more of them to 'pick on.' If you're gay in a small rural town you're far more likely to hide it as a protection mechanism.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,779,615 times
Reputation: 7282
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
So when you're sexually frustrated do you turn to other men for sex? Just curious...beacause that's what you're saying happens when straight men don't have a woman available. I don't quite believe that.
No, because the difference is I'm not in prison. Sorry, but neither me or you can truly speak on how our behavior would be if we were in the situation. As of now; I'd say hell no. You should really talk to couple of prisoners to understand how prison works.

When a dude has sex with another dude in prison; it's more due to the fact of surviving or sexual frustration. At this point; I find it disgusting, but I can't speak on my actions in prison because I've never been in that situation.
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