U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-16-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 13,293,184 times
Reputation: 2929

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous92 View Post
I agree, I know from first hand experience that DC is far ahead of NYC. I lived in Silver Spring, MD (borders DC to the north), I was in the 1st grade at the time, when we moved back to NYC (I was in the 2nd grade) my new school wanted to place me in the 4th grade because I was performing on that level, both schools were in Black neighborhoods. I find it ridiculous and scary how far behind NYC is. I know by education you probably meant college but even elementary schools are lagging behind. I'm sure Atlanta is about equal with DC.

Not all New Yorkers are out of touch, I know what time it is (*cough*time to get out of NYC*cough*) lol. I like NYC, I was born here but in my opinion its not a great place to live for most Black people.

I don't want to get too off topic but I'm Black and I travel, I currently live in a working class/middle class/poor neighborhood (but not for long).

I think its dumb to place everyone into groups.
Thanks.I did mean education.And poverty and lack of education run together in most cases.I love NYC.Not enough to move there,but I understand why some people need to.You know as well as I that so many people in NYC,have an attitude that if it ain't in NYC,then it ain't worth knowing about.Or either SOME have and attitude of just woeful blind and deafness where nothing not influenced or better can be possible.
And you are absolutely right about puting people into groups based on physical appearance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-16-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,334 posts, read 17,104,436 times
Reputation: 6075
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Thanks.I did mean education.And poverty and lack of education run together in most cases.I love NYC.Not enough to move there,but I understand why some people need to.You know as well as I that so many people in NYC,have an attitude that if it ain't in NYC,then it ain't worth knowing about.Or either SOME have and attitude of just woeful blind and deafness where nothing not influenced or better can be possible.
And you are absolutely right about puting people into groups based on physical appearance.
I'm with you on this, I too love NYC but not enough to live here, I want to move to the South (hopefully in 2010). I will admit that there are people in NYC with that attitude of "nothing is on NY's level" but trust me its not as rampant as it is on this site.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Armsanta Sorad
5,660 posts, read 6,856,070 times
Reputation: 2440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous92 View Post
I'm with you on this, I too love NYC but not enough to live here, I want to move to the South (hopefully in 2010). I will admit that there are people in NYC with that attitude of "nothing is on NY's level" but trust me its not as rampant as it is on this site.
What about the West like California, Arizona, or Nevada?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,334 posts, read 17,104,436 times
Reputation: 6075
Quote:
Originally Posted by West of Encino View Post
What about the West like California, Arizona, or Nevada?
I do want to live in the Los Angeles/San Diego area in the future (after I graduate from college) but for now I can't wait to get to the South.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,611 posts, read 19,046,624 times
Reputation: 18919
Sometimes it really is hard to read such ignorance.

I am a Black woman born and raised in Los Angeles.

I have traveled all over the US and have traveled abroad quite a bit as well.

My parents have also traveled extensively and we would take family trips at least twice a year. Many of my Black friends are also very well-traveled.

It really is sad that one person (a foreigner) spends time in one American city and makes an assumption about an entire race based upon that limited experience.

I am quite sure that there are many less affluent citizens of his own country that are not well traveled, or well educated as the OP.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2009, 06:08 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,656,982 times
Reputation: 1423
dunno...i went to private school and did real well on tests...so much so that when i was in kindergarten they put me in a second grade class.

i can't speak for nyc public schools but the private schools are decent.

i came from a mixed neighborhood, although mostly black (but black ppl from the west indies), and i am from jamaica, ny if that matters.

for the record, my black nyer self has been to italy, germany, and austria as far as foreign countries. i've been to most of the states in the u.s. as well. and i am from a single parent, working class home in jamaica, ny.

my mom did what she had to do to make it happen. she busted her a.. so that i could have a decent life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marma View Post
Jay,

I will give you my educated guess, although I am sure some people will get on my case for this. I lived in atl for ten years and had an abundance of African American friends.
There is less "exploration" and "curiosity" for practical, cultural and socioeconomic reasons among many African American families.
African Americans mostly come from slavery and repression in the past of our country, in case you didn't know that. Many are still trying to climb the socioeconomic ladder to the level in which travel is an affordable option for "entertainment" or "educational" purposes.

Thus, travel is not considered as much a part of African Culture as it is in white American culture. That said, there are plenty of affluent African Americans who love to travel. But aside from relocations due to Katrina, you will notice MOST African Americans are comfortable among their people in the towns they grew up in, just like most Americans. It is also not as easy for an African American to uproot as it is for a white American.
this is pretty accurate and almost exactly what i was going to say.

although i disagree with:

Quote:
So, even those who can afford to travel are in a network and culture of others who cannot, so as a result they don't take much interest either.

Last edited by eek; 11-17-2009 at 06:19 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
927 posts, read 1,912,401 times
Reputation: 737
While you don't have to be affluent to travel, the ability to travel is largely economic. My mother was not affluent but she knew how to save up her money, and please believe I have been to more places and stamped up my passport more than probably the majority of the country including those with more means.

I think culture is a function of a reality. So, while there may be less of a cultural practice to travel, that's based in an economic reality of not having the means to know how beneficial it is. Like with most areas in which Blacks are less apt to do, it will take time for more generations to increase their wealth and more opportunities to experience traveling for that "bug" to be passed down. I can be honest and say that when I'm taking international flights, I have often found that me and the Black folks I'm with are the lone blacks, sometimes on an entire flight. Does that mean Blacks don't want to do it? Absolutely not. I think it's just about the means. As others have said as well, a lot of us do travel regionally, so it's not that we don't have an itch to explore, many just don't have the means to explore internationally.

Addressing this topic of NYers, I would have to say that my impression of Black people certainly changed in New York. And nyrican, your view is a limited one, as was mine. Living in Atlanta, I was surrounded by middle class Blacks who loved art, had kids who went to the finest schools, and did indeed travel. I saw affluent neighborhoods populated almost exclusively by black professionals -lawyers, dotors, businessmen among them. My majority black public school was full of young black men who, without being nerds in the least, bragged about their high SAT scores and joked on people who aspired for ignorance. This reality was the rule, not the exception during my upbringing. This perspective has allowed me to challenge people who claim that all black people were__________ (insert stereotype here).

When I went to NYC I found a lot of what folks describe as an urban "ghetto" mentality. Older men who should have been dressing for work and raising a family wearing jerseys and baggy pants as their staple while hanging out with his 40/50 year old "boys", fewer married black families, more people who are only familiar with their "block." I have always been a social justice advocate, and I've always known what our people are going through. But to see it first hand in New York--to see more Black communities being targeted by cops and consequently more Black men in jail, to hear about young Black and Latino kids getting shot in pick up games or being affiliated with gangs, to see fewer Black folks with cultural experiences-- was eye opening for me.

If I was raised in NYC, I might have the same perspective you do, but this reality is one prevalent in areas of concentrated urban poverty. The landscape in many southern cities, where a lot of the posters expressing discontent with your assertions, simply does not model those of nothern ghettos where this culture is more prevalent. Our poverty is more spread out, highrise public housing projects simply do not exist, and we can balance these views of uneducated, incarcerated black men with the image we see regularly of thousands of educated black men doing well in historically black southern universities like Fisk, FAMU, Morehouse, Howard and Hampton. We can balance the view of black women on welfare with the image we see of our Black female orthodontist, black physician, black realtor, Black female principal, and black gynecologist (all of which I had growing up). Consequently, your assertion that blacks are all on welfare lines does not fit at all the reality of many black people, particularly the ones commenting here.

Moreover, the fact is (statisitically), Black people are in higher education in a larger percentage than whites (according to 2004/2005 stats) and only a fraction of black men and women recieve public assistance or are incarcerated.

As others have said, NYC may be great, but in truth many people of color are struggling in New York City, and your limited perspective attests to that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:39 AM
 
56,637 posts, read 80,952,685 times
Reputation: 12518
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86 View Post
While you don't have to be affluent to travel, the ability to travel is largely economic. My mother was not affluent but she knew how to save up her money, and please believe I have been to more places and stamped up my passport more than probably the majority of the country including those with more means.

I think culture is a function of a reality. So, while there may be less of a cultural practice to travel, that's based in an economic reality of not having the means to know how beneficial it is. Like with most areas in which Blacks are less apt to do, it will take time for more generations to increase their wealth and more opportunities to experience traveling for that "bug" to be passed down. I can be honest and say that when I'm taking international flights, I have often found that me and the Black folks I'm with are the lone blacks, sometimes on an entire flight. Does that mean Blacks don't want to do it? Absolutely not. I think it's just about the means. As others have said as well, a lot of us do travel regionally, so it's not that we don't have an itch to explore, many just don't have the means to explore internationally.

Addressing this topic of NYers, I would have to say that my impression of Black people certainly changed in New York. And nyrican, your view is a limited one, as was mine. Living in Atlanta, I was surrounded by middle class Blacks who loved art, had kids who went to the finest schools, and did indeed travel. I saw affluent neighborhoods populated almost exclusively by black professionals -lawyers, dotors, businessmen among them. My majority black public school was full of young black men who, without being nerds in the least, bragged about their high SAT scores and joked on people who aspired for ignorance. This reality was the rule, not the exception during my upbringing. This perspective has allowed me to challenge people who claim that all black people were__________ (insert stereotype here).

When I went to NYC I found a lot of what folks describe as an urban "ghetto" mentality. Older men who should have been dressing for work and raising a family wearing jerseys and baggy pants as their staple while hanging out with his 40/50 year old "boys", fewer married black families, more people who are only familiar with their "block." I have always been a social justice advocate, and I've always known what our people are going through. But to see it first hand in New York--to see more Black communities being targeted by cops and consequently more Black men in jail, to hear about young Black and Latino kids getting shot in pick up games or being affiliated with gangs, to see fewer Black folks with cultural experiences-- was eye opening for me.

If I was raised in NYC, I might have the same perspective you do, but this reality is one prevalent in areas of concentrated urban poverty. The landscape in many southern cities, where a lot of the posters expressing discontent with your assertions, simply does not model those of nothern ghettos where this culture is more prevalent. Our poverty is more spread out, highrise public housing projects simply do not exist, and we can balance these views of uneducated, incarcerated black men with the image we see regularly of thousands of educated black men doing well in historically black southern universities like Fisk, FAMU, Morehouse, Howard and Hampton. We can balance the view of black women on welfare with the image we see of our Black female orthodontist, black physician, black realtor, Black female principal, and black gynecologist (all of which I had growing up). Consequently, your assertion that blacks are all on welfare lines does not fit at all the reality of many black people, particularly the ones commenting here.

Moreover, the fact is (statisitically), Black people are in higher education in a larger percentage than whites (according to 2004/2005 stats) and only a fraction of black men and women recieve public assistance or are incarcerated.

As others have said, NYC may be great, but in truth many people of color are struggling in New York City, and your limited perspective attests to that.
I again agree with almost everything you said. I will say that there are affluent or solidly middle class mostly Black neighborhoods in NYC and other Northeastern cities. In my area, that would be the Salt Springs neighborhood. You will also find such Black folks in more mixed neighborhoods, but in which Blacks make up a "good portion" of such neighborhoods(Meadowbrook, Westcott, Strathmore and Outer Comstock in my area).

Here's some in the NYC area:
Cambria Heights, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Laurelton, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rosedale, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Philly:
Mount Airy, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Overbrook, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
University City, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wynnefield, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bloomfield, Connecticut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Windsor, Connecticut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You also have places like: Susquehanna Township near Harrisburg, Penn Hills near Pittsburgh, North Buffalo, Cambridge MA and some other neighborhoods/communities in the Northeast to middle class and upper class Blacks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,085 posts, read 11,455,026 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86 View Post
While you don't have to be affluent to travel, the ability to travel is largely economic. My mother was not affluent but she knew how to save up her money, and please believe I have been to more places and stamped up my passport more than probably the majority of the country including those with more means.

I think culture is a function of a reality. So, while there may be less of a cultural practice to travel, that's based in an economic reality of not having the means to know how beneficial it is. Like with most areas in which Blacks are less apt to do, it will take time for more generations to increase their wealth and more opportunities to experience traveling for that "bug" to be passed down. I can be honest and say that when I'm taking international flights, I have often found that me and the Black folks I'm with are the lone blacks, sometimes on an entire flight. Does that mean Blacks don't want to do it? Absolutely not. I think it's just about the means. As others have said as well, a lot of us do travel regionally, so it's not that we don't have an itch to explore, many just don't have the means to explore internationally.

Addressing this topic of NYers, I would have to say that my impression of Black people certainly changed in New York. And nyrican, your view is a limited one, as was mine. Living in Atlanta, I was surrounded by middle class Blacks who loved art, had kids who went to the finest schools, and did indeed travel. I saw affluent neighborhoods populated almost exclusively by black professionals -lawyers, dotors, businessmen among them. My majority black public school was full of young black men who, without being nerds in the least, bragged about their high SAT scores and joked on people who aspired for ignorance. This reality was the rule, not the exception during my upbringing. This perspective has allowed me to challenge people who claim that all black people were__________ (insert stereotype here).

When I went to NYC I found a lot of what folks describe as an urban "ghetto" mentality. Older men who should have been dressing for work and raising a family wearing jerseys and baggy pants as their staple while hanging out with his 40/50 year old "boys", fewer married black families, more people who are only familiar with their "block." I have always been a social justice advocate, and I've always known what our people are going through. But to see it first hand in New York--to see more Black communities being targeted by cops and consequently more Black men in jail, to hear about young Black and Latino kids getting shot in pick up games or being affiliated with gangs, to see fewer Black folks with cultural experiences-- was eye opening for me.

If I was raised in NYC, I might have the same perspective you do, but this reality is one prevalent in areas of concentrated urban poverty. The landscape in many southern cities, where a lot of the posters expressing discontent with your assertions, simply does not model those of nothern ghettos where this culture is more prevalent. Our poverty is more spread out, highrise public housing projects simply do not exist, and we can balance these views of uneducated, incarcerated black men with the image we see regularly of thousands of educated black men doing well in historically black southern universities like Fisk, FAMU, Morehouse, Howard and Hampton. We can balance the view of black women on welfare with the image we see of our Black female orthodontist, black physician, black realtor, Black female principal, and black gynecologist (all of which I had growing up). Consequently, your assertion that blacks are all on welfare lines does not fit at all the reality of many black people, particularly the ones commenting here.

Moreover, the fact is (statisitically), Black people are in higher education in a larger percentage than whites (according to 2004/2005 stats) and only a fraction of black men and women recieve public assistance or are incarcerated.

As others have said, NYC may be great, but in truth many people of color are struggling in New York City, and your limited perspective attests to that.
So true. However, I will agree with ckhthankgod that, as I'm finding here in Boston, there are more affluent black people living outside the inner cities and in the suburbs. It's not ALL low-income urban black folk up here in the north, but it ain't no Atlanta, or even Houston/Dallas for that matter, either. But overall, great, insightful post. The best answer yet for the OP, IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
927 posts, read 1,912,401 times
Reputation: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostoner View Post
So true. However, I will agree with ckhthankgod that, as I'm finding here in Boston, there are more affluent black people living outside the inner cities and in the suburbs. It's not ALL low-income urban black folk up here in the north, but it ain't no Atlanta, or even Houston/Dallas for that matter, either. But overall, great, insightful post. The best answer yet for the OP, IMO.
Why thank you. And I was not intending for my post to malign the North at all. I lived with my godparents when I was up there who are very well off and many of their peers/colleagues are middle class and well-educated. I know of the wealthier black neighborhoods, and the wealthy blacks up North tend to be more spread out either in working class black hoods (like Harlem) or all over the city (had a number of friends who worked on Wall St. and lived in the financial district) As I was in NYC for grad school, I also came across many young African American men and women who were well-educated and prosperous, whether they were from Westchester or Jersey.

As you all point out there are numerous well-to-do black neighborhoods in the North, and I'm certainly not discounting that. What I'm looking at are stats reflecting the masses and those reflecting disparities in positions of power at the city level--unemployment rates, percentages of black entrepreneurs, percentages of black people seeking higher education, percentages of blacks who receive government contracts, percentage of blacks in elected office, etc. In doing so, there is a clear disparity between blacks in the North and those in the South. Which is why it always amuses me when a lot of New Yorkers (the primary culprit of nothern blacks) make asinine statements about the south relying on old stereotypes when they couldn't be further from the truth, and are in fact describing their own neighborhoods to a T.

What's even more unfortunate is that because there are not similar concentrations of wealth for Blacks in NYC as there are in other southern cities, is that even kids who have great upbringings in NYC can get lost in the shuffle and caught up in the negative aspects of hyper-urban environments. This happens everywhere of course, but especially so in NYC where it is much more likely for Black folks to be amid concentrated poverty than concentrated wealth. Places like East New York and Brownsville, which are supposedly the most hood in the city, have numerous working class black families and most black folks there are simply working hard and trying to make it. Yet, you get innocent kids time after time getting hit by stray bullets, being targeted by cops, and getting stuck in horrible public schools without even basic amenities in the predominately black areas of NYC, which gives these places the rep of being "ghetto."

Now, admittedly, this is maligning the North, but it's amazing how some of the loudest and arrogant black and Latino NYCers are the ones who rarely venture into the nightlife, art and cultural scene of the "City," can't even tell you how to get around New York past the subway line they take in their borough, while I see black folks just devouring these attractions in southern cities, driving all over the map to taste the culture of the region, and can tell you the front and back route to some of the most obscure hot spots in the city and can tell those same New Yorkers how to get around in their own city. While these arrogant types (not all NYers, just the ignorant, arrogant ones :-), have been in the city 20 odd years, they're so used to "everything at their fingertips" and just walking to the bodega for breakfast lunch and dinner, their worldview gets closed in and they find it "adventurous" that you enjoy going to Astoria, partying in Williamsburgh, taking in a outdoor ballet performance in Central Park, dining in Washington Heights, lounging in Chelsea, and devouring Thai in restaurant row after a Broadway show. They are perfectly content in their ignorance, arrogance, and isolation but want to tell you about southerners lacking culture. I could really go on with this, so I'll stop here to keep it on topic ;-).

I can see myself living in NYC in the near future, but it saddens me how conspicuous the disparities are, it's really like going back in time IMO.

Last edited by bizchick86; 11-17-2009 at 12:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top