U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:17 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,656,077 times
Reputation: 1423

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Black folks started leaving NYC way before Harlem started undergoing gentrification. That only exacerbated the problem.
gentrification didn't just happen in harlem, tho.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-19-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,331,660 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
gentrification didn't just happen in harlem, tho.
Allow me to be more specific: Blacks started leaving NYC (and other Northern cities) for the South as far back as the 70's. That's when the reverse migration trend began and still continues to this day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Armsanta Sorad
5,660 posts, read 6,854,969 times
Reputation: 2440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Allow me to be more specific: Blacks started leaving NYC (and other Northern cities) for the South as far back as the 70's. That's when the reverse migration trend began and still continues to this day.
Is the South the only magnet to flee to when blacks leave large cities? Why not the West?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 5,463,975 times
Reputation: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by West of Encino View Post
Is the South the only magnet to flee to when blacks leave large cities? Why not the West?
The West coast is quite expensive compared to the South for one thing, and outside LA and Oakland, the black communities are not as large compared to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. Also consider that many of the blacks that migrated to California way back when were mainly from Texas and Louisiana. There has always been a huge migration of blacks between Cali and Texas and vice versa.

I have family in the LA area. My aunt has been living out there 50 years. Many of her friends have relocated down south to retire as LA has become too expensive for them, not to mention that retirees are taxed on their income in Cali, wheras in Texas or Georgia, they aren't. My uncle recently retired after 37 years as a teacher and school admin in the Inland Empire, and he is considering moving down south for that precise reason.

When I lived in SoCal in the 1990's, I remember the "black flight" beginning to happen in Southern California, exacerbated by the closure of the aerospace plants after the cold war ended, as well as the LA Riots. The gang violence was pretty bad back in the 80's and 90's, and many people seem to be fleeing that as well. First, many started moving to the Inland Empire, then the Antelope Valley, the Victor Valley, then Las Vegas was pretty popular for awhile. But many started looking south. I think in the Bay Area, many blacks that left SF and Oakland went to the cities in the Central Valley. I would've never thought that South Central LA would become predominately Latino, but it is now.

There are a LOT of Californians here in the Atlanta area. Dallas and Houston are popular destinations for Black Californians as well. Someone made a very thorough post as to why blacks are relocating south in another thread that you started that explained this trend. Cheaper cost of living, larger levels of black affluence, as well as a feeling of going back "home" seem to be the main reasons. I don't know why you seem to get so offended about blacks leaving the west coast to move back down south, but it is what it is and many people have provided you with the reasons.

Some more reading about the "New Great Migration":

http://www.brookings.edu/urban/pubs/20040524_Frey.pdf (broken link)

Last edited by grindin; 11-19-2009 at 02:20 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
927 posts, read 1,912,250 times
Reputation: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindin View Post
The West coast is quite expensive compared to the South for one thing, and outside LA and Oakland, the black communities are not as large compared to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. Also consider that many of the blacks that migrated to California way back when were mainly from Texas and Louisiana. There has always been a huge migration of blacks between Cali and Texas and vice versa.

I have family in the LA area. My aunt has been living out there 50 years. Many of her friends have relocated down south to retire as LA has become too expensive for them, not to mention that retirees are taxed on their income in Cali, wheras in Texas or Georgia, they aren't. My uncle recently retired after 37 years as a teacher and school admin in the Inland Empire, and he is considering moving down south for that precise reason.

When I lived in SoCal in the 1990's, I remember the "black flight" beginning to happen in Southern California, exacerbated by the closure of the aerospace plants after the cold war ended, as well as the LA Riots. The gang violence was pretty bad back in the 80's and 90's, and many people seem to be fleeing that as well. First, many started moving to the Inland Empire, then the Antelope Valley, the Victor Valley, then Las Vegas was pretty popular for awhile. But many started looking south. I think in the Bay Area, many blacks that left SF and Oakland went to the cities in the Central Valley. I would've never thought that South Central LA would become predominately Latino, but it is now.

There are a LOT of Californians here in the Atlanta area. Dallas and Houston are popular destinations for Black Californians as well. Someone made a very thorough post as to why blacks are relocating south in another thread that you started that explained this trend. Cheaper cost of living, larger levels of black affluence, as well as a feeling of going back "home" seem to be the main reasons. I don't know why you seem to get so offended about blacks leaving the west coast to move back down south, but it is what it is and many people have provided you with the reasons.

Some more reading about the "New Great Migration":

http://www.brookings.edu/urban/pubs/20040524_Frey.pdf (broken link)
Myself among them. I was born in Cali, and my family left for the exact same reasons you're describing. Many of my mom's associates here in Atlanta all left L.A. around the same time in the late 80s early 90s. My mother was concerned about gang violence (she was a teacher in South Central and she saw it first hand), wanted cheaper cost of living, and also was concerned about the earthquakes.

I used to visit my family that remained in Cali every summer, and on one of my recent trips noticed how significantly the black population diminished in the city. Of course in some areas there were and still are a lot of blacks, but not nearly as much as I had remembered growing up. It was such a different visual contrast to me in the lack of black folks that when I returned home to Atlanta, I was taken aback with how much it seemed black people were everywhere! Just the few weeks I spent in Cali made me forgot what a city is like when it has a high black population.

A bit of my family that lived in L.A. left as well, for Northern California or Vegas. And our roots are indeed in Lousiana, Georgia, and Oklahoma. Your post is spot on..wanted to give you reps but I've got to spread it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 04:21 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,331,660 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by West of Encino View Post
Is the South the only magnet to flee to when blacks leave large cities? Why not the West?
Grindin and bizchick86 gave excellent responses, but many of the Blacks who want to live in areas of the West with lower costs of living move to the Inland Empire, Phoenix, or Las Vegas. Like others, they're usually moving from the Los Angeles area.

But here's a useful chart I ran across some time ago about states that Blacks are migrating to and which states they are from. They correspond pretty much to the migration patters during the first Great Migration:

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,569,024 times
Reputation: 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Grindin and bizchick86 gave excellent responses, but many of the Blacks who want to live in areas of the West with lower costs of living move to the Inland Empire, Phoenix, or Las Vegas. Like others, they're usually moving from the Los Angeles area.

But here's a useful chart I ran across some time ago about states that Blacks are migrating to and which states they are from. They correspond pretty much to the migration patters during the first Great Migration:
Of course, this map only includes southern states, and not other states blacks may be moving to. Also, this doesn't factor in blacks who may be moving FROM the south to the north/midwest/west. Also, there are many whites moving to those southern states from the same northern/western states that the chart shows blacks are moving to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,569,024 times
Reputation: 3232
For the OP,

I'm "black" (as well as many other ethnicities), and I've traveled around the world. Other members of my family have also been to various continents. However, I'm not culturally black, so I'm not sure if my experience is typical of most black Americans.

Many black people I've known (who are culturally black) have also been to other countries, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 05:43 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,331,660 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Of course, this map only includes southern states, and not other states blacks may be moving to. Also, this doesn't factor in blacks who may be moving FROM the south to the north/midwest/west. Also, there are many whites moving to those southern states from the same northern/western states that the chart shows blacks are moving to.
Ummm, right. The chart was relevant to the point I was trying to make, not all of those other things you mentioned. It's like I'm showing a chart of expenditures made and revenue generated by McDonald's, and you're like "What about Hardee's? What about Wendy's? What about Burger King?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2009, 11:00 AM
 
164 posts, read 310,547 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
better weather? sure.
lower cost of living? debatable in some areas (depends on where you're from, where you're going, what you're looking for, etc. etc.)
"plentiful" job opportunities? na.

there aren't a lot job opportunities anywhere right now...and again, outside of tx, ny has a lower unemployment rate than any of the southern states that were mentioned awhile ago. i didn't check on whether or not the rest of the north does, however.

to be completely honest, i think there are several factors as to why a person moves from nyc to (lets face it) nc or fl (these two are the most common as far as my experience, with ga coming in third).

-cheaper cost of living
-cheaper cost of living
-cheaper cost of living

it has nothing to do with the weather and it doesn't have anything to do with the job market. they heard from somebody that heard from somebody that ____ was the place to be if you want a house.

which is ok. there are pros and cons to every place and if the pros outweigh the cons for joe blow and he wants to move down south then so be it.

i promise you that ny isn't hurting or missing anybody that isn't here for one bit. we have 2342342342343 million ppl and 50 million tourists that vote with the click of their cameras and the coins in their wallets.
I agree with your view that most black NY'ers who are "currently" leaving do so mainly to find lower costs of living, better bargain houses, and reasons such as that. But that's not why African Americans started leaving in the beginning. Like Akh pointed out, the trend of more black NY'ers leaving that city for the south, as opposed to black southerners going to NY, began as early as the 1970s. It was a reversal of a black southern migration to NY that had been going on since about 1916 to the 1960s.

The real tipping point though was the late 80s/early 90s. I base that opinion on my own anecdotal and family experiences, but it can be verified based on demographic data also.

African Americans started leaving NY after the crack epidemic hit the city. I was in my teens during those years and spent a lot of time hanging with my relatives in NY. For those of you who are younger and familiar with current day NY--BELIEVE me, NY back then was a different place, a different world, a completely different UNIVERSE. During those years in the 80s/early 90s, NY was an extremely wild, grimy, and violent place. It was still an exciting and fun place, but it was very grimy, violent, and wild at the same time. It's truly unbelieavable and somewhat surreal to see how much NY has changed and how different it is now. I was young & dumb back then, so I loved the wildness and low-grade anarchy that seemed to exist up there.

But I remember all of my relatives (along with their friends and neighbors) beginning to say that "NY is no place to raise children." All of them started saving money, making plans, and made it a goal to leave NY. Most of the blacks who originally began to leave were those who had the most recent family linkages to the South. After they went back to their hometowns and states, or visited relatives there, many of them were surprised how much things had changed down there (compared to the 1960s or 1950s). Things had really progressed as a result of the Civil Rights Movement. They started to buy homes and settle down. Gradually, by word-of-mouth, many of their African American neighbors who didn't have immediate or recent connections to the South began to visit and think about moving down there too. So over time, it turned into a straight-up reverse migration.

The crack epidemic eventually died down and NYC became safer; but by then, many black NY'ers had become aware of the lower cost of living, the big houses & yards, the family oriented areas conducive to raising children, and all that in parts of the Southeast (and Mid-Atlantic). That's probably the main motive now. What makes NY different from other cities hit hard by crack--like Philly or DC for example--is that black NY'ers were more prone to move South. Philly blacks mostly searched for better neighborhoods within the city and suburbs surrounding the city, or went over to Jersey, or down to Delaware. Blacks in DC really started flowing heavily out to Prince George's during that time--although now, poorer DC blacks are also being pushed out across the county line due to gentrification.

As far as NY--I agree that it is definitely a great place to be when you're young, single, ambitious, and have only yourself to worry about. But as people get older, get married, start having kids, etc., their priorities and desires begin to change. It's just easier to get on your feet, get situated, and get property down South.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top