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Old 08-17-2010, 06:31 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,116,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovely95 View Post
I am actually going to go with city population here. Some say that it gives a distorted view, but I think metro areas can skew to the extreme. City population are at least a given population in a certain area, no matter how big, it's quite understandable. Metros seem to even include country rural areas way far out or places I wouldn't even consider apart of a certain city. Now don't get me wrong, there are cities that feel bigger than their city population because they attract people from several counties and may be more dense, but there are plenty of cities that can't say that.
The problem is that some cities are the exact opposite where the urban core isn't contained in the city due to a small area. St. Louis is an example of not having all of the urban much less urban area wholly in its boundaries. Though it also has the other extreme in having a lot of rural hinterland in its metro due to people commuting long distances often due to being able to do so at high speed and poverty in the rural areas.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in the universe
2,161 posts, read 3,988,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Comparing metro areas stastics is much more of a solid barometer of the size of a city than the central core city alone. MUCH MORE. It shouldn't even be an argument, unless of course you are from Jacksonville, Indianapolis, El Paso, etc and can think your city is actually more important than Boston, Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, Denver, Miami, etc, etc, because there is a larger population within the city limits.

The argument about far flung counties being included in metro statistics doesn't hold water. You yourself mention they are rural, far out places. If so, they don't have a large population and thus don't skew the numbers that much. My hometown county in GA was added to Atlanta's metro area after the last census even though the closest part is at least 45 miles from the city limits. But the population is only 21,000. That is not even a drop in the bucket of metro Atlanta's 5 million +.
Population has little to do with importance. Sure a bigger city would be considered important than a town of 10,000, but that town may hold a large important industry while that larger city doesn't have anything nearly as important. So just because those first three cities have larger population, doesn't mean they are more important.

Yes a lot of them are rural far out places, but some cities hold massive urban areas that it just can't compete. With city population, I can compare a certain area, not just by population, but by density and urbanity much easier. The thing is, while I prefer city area sometimes, you have to admit that both city and metro can skew population estimates because no one city is the same. I'm not saying metro isn't important, because, like I said, some cities have massive urbanity that extends farther out than others, but many do not. Just like a lot of people think city population doesn't tell the whole story, I don't think metro area says everything. I think that every city needs to be judged specially, but that's not going to happen because it's a little complicated. That's just how a I feel personally, I'm not saying anyone should go by this, it's just my opinion.

Last edited by Lovely95; 08-17-2010 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Fiji
647 posts, read 1,851,113 times
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I may be odd in that I don't take pride in the size or lack of size of my city. I would prefer that my city stay on the small to medium size. I don't like density, traffic, congestion, etc.. that often comes with big cities. If I really need a bigger city for whatever reason, I can always make the 1.5 hour drive to Atlanta.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:05 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,116,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovely95 View Post
Population has little to do with importance. Sure a bigger city would be considered important than a town of 10,000, but that town may hold a large important industry while that larger city doesn't have anything nearly as important. So just because those first three cities have larger population, doesn't mean they are more important.

Yes a lot of them are rural far out places, but some cities hold massive urban areas that it just can't compete. With city population, I can compare a certain area, not just by population, but by density and urbanity much easier. The thing is, while I prefer city area sometimes, you have to admit that both city and metro can skew population estimates because no one city is the same. I'm not saying metro isn't important, because, like I said, some cities have massive urbanity that extends farther out than others, but many do not. Just like a lot of people think city population doesn't tell the whole story, I don't think metro area says everything. I think that every city needs to be judged specially, but that's not going to happen because it's a little complicated. That's just how a I feel personally, I'm not saying anyone should go by this, it's just my opinion.
Why in reality something along the lines of UA is a better indicator since it ignores political boundaries. Also block area density numbers could get a fell as to what the urban core of an area is. Although with that there is the issues of some areas have low to near zero density in core areas due to the land being largely either industrial or parkland which means zero residents. So you would have to add into a core any areas of dense employment (is there a map that shows employment density?) and areas that are not developed due to parkland, cemetaries, and/or protected areas.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,373 posts, read 5,999,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
So here is my question? Can one take pride in their cities population even though their metro maybe small? For instance Milwaukee has 605,000 people in it's city but metro is 2,000,000 at best. So if we are going by city pop Milwaukee is one of the bigger cities right behind Boston at 609,000 and Milwaukee is bigger than Denver and Seattle and St.Louis. Milwaukee is 23rd in terms of city population and when it comes to metro well, we are #32 right next to Columbus, OH. However a lot of people don't consider Columbus a big city.

So can I take pride knowing Milwaukee has a decent city population but a rather weak metro population?

So what's more important? city pop or metro pop? or is city population just a side note?
People in Ohio consider Columbus to be a big city. The city proper bears that out as well, even though Columbus is not anywhere close to Cleveland or Cincinnatti in terms of how urban or dense the city is. Columbus is a smaller city that annexed a lot of surrounding suburbs.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,835 posts, read 19,567,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
People in Ohio consider Columbus to be a big city. The city proper bears that out as well, even though Columbus is not anywhere close to Cleveland or Cincinnati in terms of how urban or dense the city is. Columbus is a smaller city that annexed a lot of surrounding suburbs.
True I was speaking from a national perspective, Columbus is bigger than MKE in term of city pop at almost 800,000 while MKE stands st 605,000. Also MKE's and Columbus's metro are nearly exactyly the same at 1.7 Million. However most people in MKE consider Kenosha and Walworth to be in "the Milwaukee area" and that brings our metro pop to slightly over 2,000,000. However Columbus's metro CSA wise is also at 2,000,000. So nearly the same size is Milwaukee and Columbus.

Now if we could only get the Bluejackets to move up to Milwaukee

How about a trade? Milwaukee will trade it's professional indoor soccer team and a AHL Hockey team for those pesky Blue Jackets? We will even give you two indoor Football teams? fair?
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,369,517 times
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In Australia 'city' is synonymous for 'metro area.' No one says 'I'm from the suburbs of Perth', even if they're 30km out they say 'I'm from Perth.'

Btw city limits are often arbitrary, and some city areas are basically suburban and some suburban areas are city-like. No drastic change when you go from one to the next.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,373 posts, read 5,999,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
So here is my question? Can one take pride in their cities population even though their metro maybe small? For instance Milwaukee has 605,000 people in it's city but metro is 2,000,000 at best. So if we are going by city pop Milwaukee is one of the bigger cities right behind Boston at 609,000 and Milwaukee is bigger than Denver and Seattle and St.Louis. Milwaukee is 23rd in terms of city population and when it comes to metro well, we are #32 right next to Columbus, OH. However a lot of people don't consider Columbus a big city.

So can I take pride knowing Milwaukee has a decent city population but a rather weak metro population?

So what's more important? city pop or metro pop? or is city population just a side note?
Midwest never gets any respect, especially on City Data
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:30 AM
 
Location: New England & The Maritimes
2,116 posts, read 4,201,666 times
Reputation: 1114
City limit #s mean absolutely nothing. Unfortunately people who don't care about stuff like this usually just look at city-proper numbers. Canadians will ask how big Boston is and when I say 600,000 people, they are shocked by how "small" it is and then I have to explain that the metro area is nearly 10x the size. Just doing my part to spread the gospel of MSAs/CSAs/Urban Areas.
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,163,980 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit View Post
City limit #s mean absolutely nothing.
That is nonsense.

Metro numbers may mean more when ranking an area for certain things, but ask city mayors if the size of the city means nothing? ask them what the population of the city means to funding, ask them what it means in terms of taxes, ask them what it means in terms of services.

City data folks are a trip.

City Size means a lot people, it is just not important to you because all you care about is the bragging rights aspect of things
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