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Old 08-06-2010, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,405 posts, read 10,072,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
I'm gifted. Jacksonville probably has the smallest gap, with 808K in the city and 1.3 in the metro. San Antonio is another one, with 1.4 million in the city and 2.8 million in the metro.

El Paso is even a larger percentage of its metro area than Jacksonville. El Paso has 620,447 in its city limits compared to its metropolitan area of 751,296 (July 2009 US Census estimates for both). Which, if I am doing my math correctly, means 82.6% of the El Paso MSA is within the city limits of the core city.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:37 PM
 
5 posts, read 9,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300zxtwinturbo View Post
Sorry but I seem to be in the minority that thinks that city population is far more important, why because when you want to enjoy a good urban vibe of culture, dining, parks, shopping, ect, you don't get that from racing accross a metro area at 70 mph on the freeway, that only comes from the INNER CITY, so inner city pop in a compact area that creates that urban vibe is all that matters to me, there are parts of my cities metro that I still havn't seen and don't want to, and ive lived here all my life
Where are you from if I might ask? I'm from Hampton Roads, VA or the 7 Cities as many call it, and Norfolk with a population of about 240,000 people is the focal city if there truly is one. There are however three other fully urban cities in the metro being Hampton, Newport News, and Portsmouth. The other three major cities...Chesapeake, Suffolk, Virginia Beach...are mostly suburban but they all have sizable urban areas. All three of these cities also have large rural areas as well.

Unlike most metro areas all seven cities have an identity. In fact the metro consists of a total of nine cities and seven counties(counties are independent of cities in Virginia)some of which are actually in North Carolina. Some people may refer to this area as the Norfolk area or the Virginia Beach area at times, but neither is an accurate description. You can, but you don't have to race across the area for shopping and dining.

Each of the seven major cities have their own destinations for shopping, fine dining, and cultural events. Five of the cities have old and traditional downtowns while Virginia Beach has a developing downtown to complement the oceanfront. Chesapeake has an old historic district called South Norfolk that was once an independent city itself before merging with Norfolk County to form what is now Chesapeake.

Even with Norfolk being the focal city with its 240,000 residents the urban population of the metro is about 1.2million with the total metro population being just under 1.8million. This is why in my opinion metro population can be more meaningful than the focal city's population. City lines can be very misleading in regards to how an area is developed. DC/Maryland/NOVA, Northern New Jersey, South Florida, large areas of California...these are all areas where the focal cities are surrounded by other urban centers that are just as important to the local culture and economy.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:51 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,117,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lojack1976 View Post
Where are you from if I might ask? I'm from Hampton Roads, VA or the 7 Cities as many call it, and Norfolk with a population of about 240,000 people is the focal city if there truly is one. There are however three other fully urban cities in the metro being Hampton, Newport News, and Portsmouth. The other three major cities...Chesapeake, Suffolk, Virginia Beach...are mostly suburban but they all have sizable urban areas. All three of these cities also have large rural areas as well.

Unlike most metro areas all seven cities have an identity. In fact the metro consists of a total of nine cities and seven counties(counties are independent of cities in Virginia)some of which are actually in North Carolina. Some people may refer to this area as the Norfolk area or the Virginia Beach area at times, but neither is an accurate description. You can, but you don't have to race across the area for shopping and dining.

Each of the seven major cities have their own destinations for shopping, fine dining, and cultural events. Five of the cities have old and traditional downtowns while Virginia Beach has a developing downtown to complement the oceanfront. Chesapeake has an old historic district called South Norfolk that was once an independent city itself before merging with Norfolk County to form what is now Chesapeake.

Even with Norfolk being the focal city with its 240,000 residents the urban population of the metro is about 1.2million with the total metro population being just under 1.8million. This is why in my opinion metro population can be more meaningful than the focal city's population. City lines can be very misleading in regards to how an area is developed. DC/Maryland/NOVA, Northern New Jersey, South Florida, large areas of California...these are all areas where the focal cities are surrounded by other urban centers that are just as important to the local culture and economy.
I think the idea of multiple urban centers in a metro is becoming more of the rule than an exception. One of the trends that parallel urban revitilization in a metro is the appearance of seperate urban centers forming in the suburbs.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
I think the idea of multiple urban centers in a metro is becoming more of the rule than an exception. One of the trends that parallel urban revitilization in a metro is the appearance of seperate urban centers forming in the suburbs.
Yeah, that does appear to be the trend these days all over the country. "New Urbanism" is one of the terms I've seen thrown around in recent years. This sort of development is happening in newer cities like Virginia Beach with their Town Center/downtown area, but also in older cities like Newport News with their Oyster Point City Center even though they do have a traditional downtown as well. Portsmouth is also in the early stages of a city center development with the redevelopment of a rather large neighborhood that has been totally demolished. There is already a new community college campus there with plans for offices, apartments, hotels, and retail.

Most of the cities in this area are old and originated as colonial settlements and towns, so many of the urban areas here have been around for a long time. There are quite a few historic districts in this area. Williamsburg, Hampton, Norfolk, and Portsmouth are some of the oldest cities in the country. Even the downtown area of Suffolk was the original city as a whole until it merged with Nansemond County back in the 70's, and Suffolk dates back to the 1700's.

This place has been a scattered collection of urban areas for a very long time, and over the course of the last thirty years the areas in between have become either farmland that developed into suburban stretches or suburbs that have urbanized. There was even a proposal back in the 70's to merge the five Southside cities into one, but people balked at the idea. Every city's politicians wanted to maintain their own power, so the single large city that could've been was never formed.

The idea came up again in the 90's and died an even quicker death. Several years ago there was an idea to merge Norfolk, Portsmouth, and Suffolk, but it was basically seen as another land grab by Portsmouth and Norfolk so it too was quickly dismissed by Suffolk. Back in 2004 there was a bill sponsored by a local congressman that passed for a study to be done on the merging of Norfolk and Portsmouth, but neither city was really interested since it meant no new land to develop since both cities are completely built out. All either city has left is redevelopment. I've yet to hear one word about the results of the study by the way.

Hampton and Newport News are also just about fully developed so now we're left with four completely urban cities that are surrounded by large suburban cities with Virginia Beach urbanizing fast since it has concentrated development in the northern half of the city to preserve its farmland to the south. Nearly 700,000 people live in the combined four urban cities. Older urban stretches of Chesapeake and Virginia Beach also border Norfolk and Portsmouth. In most states a single urban city or two large urban cities would have come about instead what we have here. The hunger for political power has prevented that from occurring though. This is why using one city's population as a measuring stick for the entire area just doesn't work...at least not here anyway.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:34 AM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,208,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzpost View Post
What is all this fantasizing with populations of cities, metros, cba, msa, and all of that other BS? Geez people, get a life!

Who cares?
City geeks.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:36 AM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,208,158 times
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I've actually read posts where people were proud of the fact that they lived in a city which constituted 10% of the metro population, and had tiny boundaries as well. Can you believe that?

Cities are of time and place, and have diverse underlying geography. I think that is what makes this such an interesting topic.

For the record, I think that metro population is a more accurate indicator of a city's "size"--BUT I wouldn't discount central city population either, as it speaks to the geography of a place.

To be honest, though, to gauge a city's true "size", I would also take into account the vibe, or feel, of that city compared to its suburbs, along with urbanized area population, designated market area, commuting patterns, proximity to other metros, etc. Each piece by itself doesn't tell much of a story, but when you add them up you can begin to decipher the puzzle.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:45 AM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,208,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knke0204 View Post
I have met TONS of people that will say "I'm from Chicago", and be from over an hour away. They don't even say "Chicagoland" they just say Chicago, as if they live there and walk to Cubs games from their apartment, when in fact they are nestled in their suburb, a decent drive or train ride away.
This annoys me to no avail. During undergrad at MSU, I came across dozens of people who did this. It got to the point where I would assume that they were from a suburb even if they didn't tell me.

To be fair, the kids from Metro Detroit only mentioned their suburbs and never the city.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in the universe
2,161 posts, read 3,988,881 times
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I am actually going to go with city population here. Some say that it gives a distorted view, but I think metro areas can skew to the extreme. City population are at least a given population in a certain area, no matter how big, it's quite understandable. Metros seem to even include country rural areas way far out or places I wouldn't even consider apart of a certain city. Now don't get me wrong, there are cities that feel bigger than their city population because they attract people from several counties and may be more dense, but there are plenty of cities that can't say that.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,405 posts, read 10,072,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovely95 View Post
I am actually going to go with city population here. Some say that it gives a distorted view, but I think metro areas can skew to the extreme. City population are at least a given population in a certain area, no matter how big, it's quite understandable. Metros seem to even include country rural areas way far out or places I wouldn't even consider apart of a certain city. Now don't get me wrong, there are cities that feel bigger than their city population because they attract people from several counties and may be more dense, but there are plenty of cities that can't say that.
Comparing metro areas stastics is much more of a solid barometer of the size of a city than the central core city alone. MUCH MORE. It shouldn't even be an argument, unless of course you are from Jacksonville, Indianapolis, El Paso, etc and can think your city is actually more important than Boston, Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, Denver, Miami, etc, etc, because there is a larger population within the city limits.

The argument about far flung counties being included in metro statistics doesn't hold water. You yourself mention they are rural, far out places. If so, they don't have a large population and thus don't skew the numbers that much. My hometown county in GA was added to Atlanta's metro area after the last census even though the closest part is at least 45 miles from the city limits. But the population is only 21,000. That is not even a drop in the bucket of metro Atlanta's 5 million +.
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:49 AM
 
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Another thing that makes this area a little more unique is that at one time the south side of the bay was the Norfolk/Portsmouth metro area and the peninsula(north side) was the Newport News/Hampton metro area. Construction of Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel changed commuter patterns and ultimately resulted in the merging of the two separate metros. Of course growth and the merging of counties to form the other three cities resulted in status changes of the smaller urban cities of Hampton and Portsmouth even though they are far older and denser than Virginia Beach.
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