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Old 11-30-2009, 05:12 PM
 
787 posts, read 1,468,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
The 'West' means a part of or descending from 'Western Civilization'. The U.K, the U.S.A., Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa as well as all of the European nations are the 'West' despite being located in disparate parts of the globe.

It is a cultural term, not a geographic term.


ABQConvict

Almost all former colonies can be considered "Western" then. Or is Western = white? If South Africa is western...Jamaica or Trinidad definitely are as well.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:51 PM
 
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The US, linguistically, is an anachronistic time capsule of the UK 300 years ago ... sprinkled with some modernity. It's not even on any modern spectrum, it's beside it completely.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:12 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,966,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
The 'West' means a part of or descending from 'Western Civilization'. The U.K, the U.S.A., Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa as well as all of the European nations are the 'West' despite being located in disparate parts of the globe.

It is a cultural term, not a geographic term.
ABQConvict
Yes, but I'm not sure why this means the Caribbean wouldn't be Western. It's Christian and its cultures are that of European colonies not African ones.

Maybe the idea is that the Caribbean is essentially African culture with a European sheen, hence things like Santeria or Voodoo. I just don't know if this works as well with the formerly British parts of the Caribbean. Guyana and Jamaica do have "maroon societies" that largely retain African culture, plus there is some creolization in other parts of the British Caribbean, so maybe. It seems debatable though.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:59 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,384,878 times
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They are the two oldest English speaking civilisations or sub-civilisations. England is the obvious mother country of all English speaking civilisations, and each of her children have branched out in different ways. Because the US starting differentiating as early as the 1600's, it will tend to have diverged the most. I think it's more accurate to see each as a planet. Originally, Britain was the planet, and America was the satellite - or moon, if you like. Britain still had a gravitational pull on the USA but as the US got bigger it's own pull increased. So Britain's other moons, Australia, NZ, SA, Canada were tugged between these two satellites. Even today they are competing to influence Australia, which is being pulled away from the UK to the US by the mass-media.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Both coasts
1,582 posts, read 4,289,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiriongwril View Post
so, the caribbean is not in the west? Then neither are most of the US states!!
get an atlas, man, or keep quiet!
to Meiriongwril: as mentioned earlier, it is not about the geography- so don't try to be so smug.
Your condescending comments about the US South in other threads and so on- and you are not even an American- I think YOU are the one that has to keep quiet!
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:03 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,966,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
to Meiriongwril: as mentioned earlier, it is not about the geography- so don't try to be so smug.
Your condescending comments about the US South in other threads and so on- and you are not even an American- I think YOU are the one that has to keep quiet!
I don't know that poster, but what it is about the Caribbean that makes it not culturally Western? Is this about levels of development? If so then why the mention of South Africa? Most of the English-speaking Caribbean is as or more developed than South Africa. Is the Caribbean culture more African than South Africa?
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: yeah
5,716 posts, read 14,572,027 times
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Not only are there so many English-speaking nations not accounted for, but the UK are our partners in that cute "special relationship." After Canada, they pretty much are us.

And how do you conclude that ROI is closer in terms of culture?
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,735,931 times
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I would describe the Caribbean (in general) as an area highly influenced by Western Civilization rather than as core nations of Western Civ. This goes for many areas that were colonized by Western powers as well.

Their governments and institutions were founded by Western powers, mainly Britain and Spain, but many Caribbean nations have a foundational popular culture that is decidedly not Western but mainly African and indigenous.

For example, The nations of the British West Indies, including Jamaica have British institutions and influence but anyone who has explored the area would not consider its colloquial culture to be 'Anglo' in the way the U.S. or Australia are. The traditions and vernacular language of the majority of Jamaicans and other BWI people denotes heavy African roots.

Likewise, Haiti isn't a black France floating in the sea.

Some Caribbean nations are a bit more likely to be considered Western: Cuba and Puerto Rico, for example, mainly because of the integrity of European language, connections to European/American culture, and Roman Catholicism, and/or European socialism. I would include Bermuda, too though it is not the Caribbean.

Note that while association with Europe (and nations settled by Europeans) is integral to the notion of Western culture, it is not strictly a racial thing. For example, most American Blacks are decidedly Western, while Caucasian tribesmen in Afghanistan are not.

ABQConvict

Last edited by ABQConvict; 12-02-2009 at 11:19 AM..
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