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Old 12-19-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Columbus,Ohio
1,014 posts, read 3,125,140 times
Reputation: 483

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Quote:
Originally Posted by krock1dk View Post
Teams that should move:

Jacksonville Jags (too small of a market, low support, games dont sell out and are often blacked-out,
and the fans are very fareweather)

Arizona Cardinals (the 'fans' like to think of themselves as fans but they are only fareweather and dont
deserve having a team, and Phoenix generally does not have a lot of support for its
teams due to its transient population).

Cincinnati Bengals (low support, cant make money, and they are partly within the Colts' territory as
they are winning)

Oakland Raiders (too close to San Fran)

Carolina Panthers

Tennessee Titans

Buffalo Bills

Detroit Lions

San Diego (too close to America's 2nd largest metro area of L.A)

Green Bay (by far the smallest NFL market)
I do agree about the Raiders moving because Oakland is a part San Francisco Bay metro area and it compares to Fort Worth having its own NFL team apart from Dallas ( FW and Oakland are similar in size but they are too close to their larger counterparts) If you want to keep the Raiders in the Bay area ,move them to San Jose which is getting close to million in population. I somewhat agree about the Titans - they should move from Nashville to Memphis because the latter is the larger city in Tennessee . As far as if I feel that the Panthers or Jaguars should move , the jury is still out on that. As far as whether if the Chargers or Cardinals should move , I tend to disagree about that. Both San Diego and Phoenix each have over a million in population in the cities theirselves and surely there are enough fans in their metro areas to support NFL teams and both places continue to grow. ( Personally those two cities are really not my cups of tea , but they are very deserving of Pro sports teams) I definitely do not agree about the Packers , Bengals , Bills or Lions should move. The Packers has a great deal if not most of its fan base in Milwaukee and that is a major city with a large enough metro area. As far as the Bills and Lions are concerned, even though Buffalo and Detroit keep losing population in the cities themselves, they both have large enough metro areas to support NFL teams. Also I feel one day both cities will undergo revitalization and make a comeback. The Bengals need to stay exactly where they are. Their fan base also includes Dayton and their metro areas just about overlap and Cincinnati is a major city. Also Indy is a couple hours away so Cincy is not really in Colts territory and plus the two cities are as differant as day and night. One team that was not mentioned but should move is the Buccaneers . Tampa Bay is mainly sprawl with very little urban area and its population is somewhat transient- alot of " snowbirds " from the North. Any cities that are deserving of NFL teams are : LA , Columbus Ohio ( they may have the Ohio State Buckeyes and as much as I love and admire them, college football and the NFL are like apples and oranges - two differant fruits) and somewhat Portland Ore. and San Antonio.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:07 PM
 
11,909 posts, read 32,983,782 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by otters21 View Post
I do agree about the Raiders moving because Oakland is a part San Francisco Bay metro area and it compares to Fort Worth having its own NFL team apart from Dallas ( FW and Oakland are similar in size but they are too close to their larger counterparts) If you want to keep the Raiders in the Bay area ,move them to San Jose which is getting close to million in population. I somewhat agree about the Titans - they should move from Nashville to Memphis because the latter is the larger city in Tennessee . As far as if I feel that the Panthers or Jaguars should move , the jury is still out on that. As far as whether if the Chargers or Cardinals should move , I tend to disagree about that. Both San Diego and Phoenix each have over a million in population in the cities theirselves and surely there are enough fans in their metro areas to support NFL teams and both places continue to grow. ( Personally those two cities are really not my cups of tea , but they are very deserving of Pro sports teams) I definitely do not agree about the Packers , Bengals , Bills or Lions should move. The Packers has a great deal if not most of its fan base in Milwaukee and that is a major city with a large enough metro area. As far as the Bills and Lions are concerned, even though Buffalo and Detroit keep losing population in the cities themselves, they both have large enough metro areas to support NFL teams. Also I feel one day both cities will undergo revitalization and make a comeback. The Bengals need to stay exactly where they are. Their fan base also includes Dayton and their metro areas just about overlap and Cincinnati is a major city. Also Indy is a couple hours away so Cincy is not really in Colts territory and plus the two cities are as differant as day and night. One team that was not mentioned but should move is the Buccaneers . Tampa Bay is mainly sprawl with very little urban area and its population is somewhat transient- alot of " snowbirds " from the North. Any cities that are deserving of NFL teams are : LA , Columbus Ohio ( they may have the Ohio State Buckeyes and as much as I love and admire them, college football and the NFL are like apples and oranges - two differant fruits) and somewhat Portland Ore. and San Antonio.
Why should the Titans move to Memphis? Memphis had its chance. The Titans (or Oilers as they were called) were supposed to be in Memphis until their stadium in Nashville was finished. Attendance in Memphis was dismal, so the Titans/Oilers left after only one year and played in 40,000-seat Vanderbilt Stadium in Nashville.

Besides, the Nashville MSA is larger and growing a lot faster than the Memphis MSA. The city of Memphis is larger only because it continues to annex suburbs. Nashville is the 29th largest TV market, Memphis is 50th. There's a heck of a lot more money in Nashville than Memphis. Besides, Memphis is a basketball town, not a football town.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:14 PM
 
21,242 posts, read 30,495,025 times
Reputation: 19710
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT View Post
Actually, that link you provided says that in 2009 Jacksonville has averaged 49,651 at its 8 home games which is only 73.9% of capacity and 31st out of 32 teams (only Oakland was lower).

According to that link, only 8 NFL teams have averaged sell-outs all season:

According to actual attendance:

Dallas
Baltimore
Philadelphia
Tennessee
New England
Seattle
Indianapolis
Chicago
Since the 2009 season hasn't been completed as of yet, those numbers are still not conclusive. 2008 however is factual/accurate in terms of numbers. Besides who the hell cares about capacity? So using that argument a big market team can build a stadium seating 60,000, sell it out all the time, and they're considered successful? A small market team with a stadium that seats 67,000 is crucified for attracting only 50,000. In an economy where 8 of 32 teams have averaged sell-outs it's not difficult to figure out how a team with little league support has struggled. (example: how many nationally televised games have the Jaguars played in this year? One, on 12/17.) In their 15 years as a franchise the Jaguars have played 26 nationally televised games, most of them playoff appearances. Meanwhile the Dallas Cowboys had six scheduled for this year alone. Yep, sounds fair.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:53 PM
 
11,909 posts, read 32,983,782 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Since the 2009 season hasn't been completed as of yet, those numbers are still not conclusive. 2008 however is factual/accurate in terms of numbers. Besides who the hell cares about capacity? So using that argument a big market team can build a stadium seating 60,000, sell it out all the time, and they're considered successful? A small market team with a stadium that seats 67,000 is crucified for attracting only 50,000. In an economy where 8 of 32 teams have averaged sell-outs it's not difficult to figure out how a team with little league support has struggled. (example: how many nationally televised games have the Jaguars played in this year? One, on 12/17.) In their 15 years as a franchise the Jaguars have played 26 nationally televised games, most of them playoff appearances. Meanwhile the Dallas Cowboys had six scheduled for this year alone. Yep, sounds fair.
Actually, the Jaguars have finished their home season; their remaining games are both away games. Maybe you didn't know that the NFL has 16-game seasons, 8 at home and 8 away. For Jacksonville to go from 65,000 in 2008 to less than 50,000 per home game in 2009 is lousy and brings into question the level of loyalty the good people of Jacksonville have for their NFL team.

Besides, YOU are the one who mentioned Jacksonville's attendance vs. capacity. So I'm not sure why it's ok for you to mention their 2008 attendance but it's not ok for me to mention their 2009 attendance (and remember, they have no more home games this year).

Only five NFL teams have averaged less than 90% attendance-vs.-capacity this season, although Jacksonville is the only one with no more home games:

Miami - 89.6%
St Louis - 88.7%
Detroit - 77%
Jacksonville - 73.9%
Oakland - 71.6%

Last edited by JMT; 12-20-2009 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,005 posts, read 69,495,927 times
Reputation: 10118
Quote:
Originally Posted by krock1dk View Post
Teams that should move:

Jacksonville Jags (too small of a market, low support, games dont sell out and are often blacked-out,
and the fans are very fareweather)

Arizona Cardinals (the 'fans' like to think of themselves as fans but they are only fareweather and dont
deserve having a team, and Phoenix generally does not have a lot of support for its
teams due to its transient population).

Cincinnati Bengals (low support, cant make money, and they are partly within the Colts' territory as
they are winning)

Oakland Raiders (too close to San Fran)

Carolina Panthers

Tennessee Titans

Buffalo Bills

Detroit Lions

San Diego (too close to America's 2nd largest metro area of L.A)

Green Bay (by far the smallest NFL market)
The one I agree with is Jacksonville. The Bengals should stay put, especially now that they seem to have a decent team. The Raiders should stay in Oakland, where they should have been all along. The Panthers? Questionable. If they moved, where would they go? Titans have a good fan base for the most part, and have had great success since their inception. The Bills should never move, IMO. Same goes for the Lions. The Chargers should stay put as well. But I think your opinion that the Packers should move is quite possibly one of the silliest things Ive read. As much as I hate em, their fans are the most loyal in the NFL, and have enjoyed incredible support and even a few stadium renovations.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:27 PM
 
2,352 posts, read 1,823,038 times
Reputation: 538
Take the Seahawks please.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Ohio
904 posts, read 1,637,809 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCallMeTC View Post
Take the Seahawks please.
Well, my Cleveland Browns took the first piece, Mike Holmgren. I'm excited about it. I sure hope it pays off
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: East Texas
146 posts, read 459,460 times
Reputation: 76
Even though some teams are closer to each other, I would not think it would hurt fan support. If I lived in Columbus Ohio I would still be a Bengals fan & support them. If I lived in New Jersey I would still be a Eagles fan. If I lived in Tampa, Florida I would still be a Dolphin & Jaguars fan.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:16 PM
 
Location: East Texas
146 posts, read 459,460 times
Reputation: 76
I think California should only have 3 teams so one of the teams in California should move & I say not San Diego or San Francisco. I would however love to see a team move to San Antonio/Austin or New Mexico or Oklahoma. If Jacksonville does move I hope they keep the name. L.A. Jaguars. If Oakland moves I hope they change the name. How about the Los Angeles Sharks LOL & then we could have a Dolphin vs Shark Superbowl LOL
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Avondale, Chicago
14,423 posts, read 26,287,259 times
Reputation: 9463
My call is the Jaguars eventually end up in LA. Although I suppose if they were to start sharing a stadium like the Jets/Giants that they could get the Jaguars and maybe the Rams. Would kind of suck for St. Louis fans though, as despite their current state the Rams have had a nice run in STL. And it would be their second team to lose in <30 years (Cardinals).

I don't see any other can't miss markets. San Antonio is very much Cowboys territory, if not as far as the NFL sees it. If SA had a team and the Cowboys came to town, it would be a ninth home game pretty much for Big D.

Green Bay is a small market, but the franchise is making it and people go to the games. Period. No reason to move the team, and a lot more mountains would have to be moved because of the unique ownership setup of the franchise.
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