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Old 12-24-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 6,358,494 times
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First off, lets reconcile ourselves with the fact that the United States no longer has the monopoly over ethnic/racial heterogeneity. Mass immigration from former colonies and globalization has made all Western societies and Russia (tell me that an ethnic Kazakh, Buryat, and Chechen looks like the average Russian Slav) extremely diverse.

However, the United States stands out greatly from the other multicultural societies because not only did the US have to deal with the question of multiculturalism at home much earlier than the other Western societies with the possible exception of Canada (due to slavery and dealing with the Native Americans), and nowadays remains one of the most ethnically peaceful places in the country. There is no threat of a far-right extremist party coming to take over and make America 'White' again (as if the US was ever wholly white).

Too often, we see the question of segregation in its extremities, because of the undercurrent that Jim Crow has had on our national psyche. For the most part, the US is becoming a lot less segregated due to globalization AND massive immigration. Mass media has brought us all into contact with each other, increasing the comfort level between us, leading to a more integrated society. I'm not saying that segregation doesn't exist, but the US more than any other country has done more to remedy the issue before it gets out of control. That truly impresses me, and makes me glad I am an American!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
You can find lots of integration outside of the major cities in Texas. I think Texas could compete with California when it comes to different races being integrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovely95 View Post
^That really is true. I know it may be hard for people to believe, but I see it all the time and sometimes when I travel to those real small towns, I'm surprised by the diversity that they exhibit.
I actually do believe that. Texas has had a long history of having Tejanos/Chicanos/Mexican Americans, American Whites from all over Europe (Germans and Czech in the Hill Country, Anglos in the East of Texas, Spaniards all about, etc.), and African-Americans living side-by-side. However, relations between the three groups haven't always been the most harmonious (IE: Texas had had Jim Crow Laws), but Texas had made great strides to improve the situation. I applaud that!

However, California's history as a state has always had the undercurrent of multiculturalism in it, starting from the days after the Mexican War. The South had Jim Crow, but California had the 'Yellow Codes' which treated Asian-Americans like pariahs. It was California's insistence that the Chinese Exclusion Act, Gentleman's Agreement, Asiatic Exclusion Act pass because of the threat that California would somehow become 'Oriental'. At the same time, Mexican Americans were treated much better than Asian Americans until after 1965, where the same thing is beginning to happen to them.

Despite the idea that African-Americans had little or no history in California, Allen Allensworth founded Allensworth, CA in the late 1800s-early 1900s; an all-black town in Central California in order try and separate and live away from a white-dominated society. Not to mention the Black Panthers started in Oakland in the 60s attributing to this theme of separatism.

African American Registry -- Your Source for African American History (http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/966/AllensworthCA_a_community_of_black_self_pride - broken link)

As you can see, California has had a history of dealing with people from all-around the world for the past 150 years. Texas hasn't had to until the last 30, because immigration from Asia was a bare minimum until the Vietnam War refugees were settled all around Texas (especially Houston).

Nowadays, California is extremely integrated. Yes, there are areas within cities where one ethnicity dominates, but a lot of that is self-selection. After all, if you're an immigrant from overseas, of course you want to settle amongst people who remind you of home the most. I'm not just talking about the Bay Area and LA, but all over the state of California (barring the northern third). The Central Valley is one of the most diverse rural areas of the country if not the world (look up Hmong American), and for the most part, most people have friends of another ethnicity.

This is the future of America.

Last edited by Lifeshadower; 12-24-2009 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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here's a great site for checking out segregation by metro areas: CensusScope -- Racial Segregation Statistics for Cities and Metropolitan Areas
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:17 PM
 
56,607 posts, read 80,890,793 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
First off, lets reconcile ourselves with the fact that the United States no longer has the monopoly over ethnic/racial heterogeneity. Mass immigration from former colonies and globalization has made all Western societies and Russia (tell me that an ethnic Kazakh, Buryat, and Chechen looks like the average Russian Slav) extremely diverse.

However, the United States stands out greatly from the other multicultural societies because not only did the US have to deal with the question of multiculturalism at home much earlier than the other Western societies with the possible exception of Canada (due to slavery and dealing with the Native Americans), and nowadays remains one of the most ethnically peaceful places in the country. There is no threat of a far-right extremist party coming to take over and make America 'White' again (as if the US was ever wholly white).

Too often, we see the question of segregation in its extremities, because of the undercurrent that Jim Crow has had on our national psyche. For the most part, the US is becoming a lot less segregated due to globalization AND massive immigration. Mass media has brought us all into contact with each other, increasing the comfort level between us, leading to a more integrated society. I'm not saying that segregation doesn't exist, but the US more than any other country has done more to remedy the issue before it gets out of control. That truly impresses me, and makes me glad I am an American!





I actually do believe that. Texas has had a long history of having Tejanos/Chicanos/Mexican Americans, American Whites from all over Europe (Germans and Czech in the Hill Country, Anglos in the East of Texas, Spaniards all about, etc.), and African-Americans living side-by-side. However, relations between the three groups haven't always been the most harmonious (IE: Texas had had Jim Crow Laws), but Texas had made great strides to improve the situation. I applaud that!

However, California's history as a state has always had the undercurrent of multiculturalism in it, starting from the days after the Mexican War. The South had Jim Crow, but California had the 'Yellow Codes' which treated Asian-Americans like pariahs. It was California's insistence that the Chinese Exclusion Act, Gentleman's Agreement, Asiatic Exclusion Act pass because of the threat that California would somehow become 'Oriental'. At the same time, Mexican Americans were treated much better than Asian Americans until after 1965, where the same thing is beginning to happen to them.

Despite the idea that African-Americans had little or no history in California, Allen Allensworth founded Allensworth, CA in the late 1800s-early 1900s; an all-black town in Central California in order try and separate and live away from a white-dominated society. Not to mention the Black Panthers started in Oakland in the 60s attributing to this theme of separatism.

African American Registry -- Your Source for African American History (http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/966/AllensworthCA_a_community_of_black_self_pride - broken link)

As you can see, California has had a history of dealing with people from all-around the world for the past 150 years. Texas hasn't had to until the last 30, because immigration from Asia was a bare minimum until the Vietnam War refugees were settled all around Texas (especially Houston).

Nowadays, California is extremely integrated. Yes, there are areas within cities where one ethnicity dominates, but a lot of that is self-selection. After all, if you're an immigrant from overseas, of course you want to settle amongst people who remind you of home the most. I'm not just talking about the Bay Area and LA, but all over the state of California (barring the northern third). The Central Valley is one of the most diverse rural areas of the country (look up Hmong American), and for the most part, most people have friends of another ethnicity.

This is the future of America.
NY State has also been a state that has had "diversity" from day one, ethnically and racially. People forget that NY State had slavery until 1827 and people of various European ethnicities have always been in NY State. Parts of the state have always had a relatively visible Native American presence too. Being a hub of immigration and having Underground Railroad towns doesn't hurt either.

I can also think of small towns/cities like Lyons, Clyde, Williamson, Sodus, Newark, Albion, Medina and many others in Upstate NY where people of different racial/ethnic backgrounds have interacted with each other for decades, if not over a century.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,677,759 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
First off, lets reconcile ourselves with the fact that the United States no longer has the monopoly over ethnic/racial heterogeneity. Mass immigration from former colonies and globalization has made all Western societies and Russia (tell me that an ethnic Kazakh, Buryat, and Chechen looks like the average Russian Slav) extremely diverse.

However, the United States stands out greatly from the other multicultural societies because not only did the US have to deal with the question of multiculturalism at home much earlier than the other Western societies with the possible exception of Canada (due to slavery and dealing with the Native Americans), and nowadays remains one of the most ethnically peaceful places in the country. There is no threat of a far-right extremist party coming to take over and make America 'White' again (as if the US was ever wholly white).

Too often, we see the question of segregation in its extremities, because of the undercurrent that Jim Crow has had on our national psyche. For the most part, the US is becoming a lot less segregated due to globalization AND massive immigration. Mass media has brought us all into contact with each other, increasing the comfort level between us, leading to a more integrated society. I'm not saying that segregation doesn't exist, but the US more than any other country has done more to remedy the issue before it gets out of control. That truly impresses me, and makes me glad I am an American!





I actually do believe that. Texas has had a long history of having Tejanos/Chicanos/Mexican Americans, American Whites from all over Europe (Germans and Czech in the Hill Country, Anglos in the East of Texas, Spaniards all about, etc.), and African-Americans living side-by-side. However, relations between the three groups haven't always been the most harmonious (IE: Texas had had Jim Crow Laws), but Texas had made great strides to improve the situation. I applaud that!

However, California's history as a state has always had the undercurrent of multiculturalism in it, starting from the days after the Mexican War. The South had Jim Crow, but California had the 'Yellow Codes' which treated Asian-Americans like pariahs. It was California's insistence that the Chinese Exclusion Act, Gentleman's Agreement, Asiatic Exclusion Act pass because of the threat that California would somehow become 'Oriental'. At the same time, Mexican Americans were treated much better than Asian Americans until after 1965, where the same thing is beginning to happen to them.

Despite the idea that African-Americans had little or no history in California, Allen Allensworth founded Allensworth, CA in the late 1800s-early 1900s; an all-black town in Central California in order try and separate and live away from a white-dominated society. Not to mention the Black Panthers started in Oakland in the 60s attributing to this theme of separatism.

African American Registry -- Your Source for African American History (http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/966/AllensworthCA_a_community_of_black_self_pride - broken link)

As you can see, California has had a history of dealing with people from all-around the world for the past 150 years. Texas hasn't had to until the last 30, because immigration from Asia was a bare minimum until the Vietnam War refugees were settled all around Texas (especially Houston).

Nowadays, California is extremely integrated. Yes, there are areas within cities where one ethnicity dominates, but a lot of that is self-selection. After all, if you're an immigrant from overseas, of course you want to settle amongst people who remind you of home the most. I'm not just talking about the Bay Area and LA, but all over the state of California (barring the northern third). The Central Valley is one of the most diverse rural areas of the country (look up Hmong American), and for the most part, most people have friends of another ethnicity.

This is the future of America.
Not necessarily; Galveston was once a popular place for immigrants coming to America. Specifically Jewish, Africans, and Germans.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Anaheim
1,922 posts, read 3,513,860 times
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Isn't the segregation that we see today (such as it is) mainly self-segregation? Or segregation by default?
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 6,358,494 times
Reputation: 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Not necessarily; Galveston was once a popular place for immigrants coming to America. Specifically Jewish, Africans, and Germans.
I wasn't referring to European or African immigrants, but rather Asian immigrants. If you could provide numbers to prove the contrary before the 1900s, I'd greatly appreciate it

For many, if not most Asian Americans (including mine), their journey into the American story started in California. Just like how for most European/White Americans, Ellis Island was the start of theirs (however, you'd meet a billion people who say they can trace their ancestry to the Mayflower).
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in the universe
2,161 posts, read 3,988,531 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
First off, lets reconcile ourselves with the fact that the United States no longer has the monopoly over ethnic/racial heterogeneity. Mass immigration from former colonies and globalization has made all Western societies and Russia (tell me that an ethnic Kazakh, Buryat, and Chechen looks like the average Russian Slav) extremely diverse.

However, the United States stands out greatly from the other multicultural societies because not only did the US have to deal with the question of multiculturalism at home much earlier than the other Western societies with the possible exception of Canada (due to slavery and dealing with the Native Americans), and nowadays remains one of the most ethnically peaceful places in the country. There is no threat of a far-right extremist party coming to take over and make America 'White' again (as if the US was ever wholly white).

Too often, we see the question of segregation in its extremities, because of the undercurrent that Jim Crow has had on our national psyche. For the most part, the US is becoming a lot less segregated due to globalization AND massive immigration. Mass media has brought us all into contact with each other, increasing the comfort level between us, leading to a more integrated society. I'm not saying that segregation doesn't exist, but the US more than any other country has done more to remedy the issue before it gets out of control. That truly impresses me, and makes me glad I am an American!





I actually do believe that. Texas has had a long history of having Tejanos/Chicanos/Mexican Americans, American Whites from all over Europe (Germans and Czech in the Hill Country, Anglos in the East of Texas, Spaniards all about, etc.), and African-Americans living side-by-side. However, relations between the three groups haven't always been the most harmonious (IE: Texas had had Jim Crow Laws), but Texas had made great strides to improve the situation. I applaud that!

However, California's history as a state has always had the undercurrent of multiculturalism in it, starting from the days after the Mexican War. The South had Jim Crow, but California had the 'Yellow Codes' which treated Asian-Americans like pariahs. It was California's insistence that the Chinese Exclusion Act, Gentleman's Agreement, Asiatic Exclusion Act pass because of the threat that California would somehow become 'Oriental'. At the same time, Mexican Americans were treated much better than Asian Americans until after 1965, where the same thing is beginning to happen to them.


Despite the idea that African-Americans had little or no history in California, Allen Allensworth founded Allensworth, CA in the late 1800s-early 1900s; an all-black town in Central California in order try and separate and live away from a white-dominated society. Not to mention the Black Panthers started in Oakland in the 60s attributing to this theme of separatism.

African American Registry -- Your Source for African American History (http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/966/AllensworthCA_a_community_of_black_self_pride - broken link)

As you can see, California has had a history of dealing with people from all-around the world for the past 150 years. Texas hasn't had to until the last 30, because immigration from Asia was a bare minimum until the Vietnam War refugees were settled all around Texas (especially Houston).

Nowadays, California is extremely integrated. Yes, there are areas within cities where one ethnicity dominates, but a lot of that is self-selection. After all, if you're an immigrant from overseas, of course you want to settle amongst people who remind you of home the most. I'm not just talking about the Bay Area and LA, but all over the state of California (barring the northern third). The Central Valley is one of the most diverse rural areas of the country if not the world (look up Hmong American), and for the most part, most people have friends of another ethnicity.

This is the future of America.
Right, right. In modern times, the different groups get along pretty well in Texas but it did have a pretty racist past. The other thing I have to say about that is that I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be nowadays. Mexicans, blacks and whites in Texas have just learned to deal with each other in most areas. Though I'm glad you included some California history in there as well because I sort of view it the same as Texas in a way; lots of diverse peoples, but not exactly the best past with that diversity. Sometimes people tend to forget that state had issues of it's own, maybe not necessarily the same as the south, but it was strict nonetheless, especially against Asians.

I do have to put in, aside from the Asians, Texas has had to deal with diversity for a very long time. If you're talking just Asians in general, then yes, for recent times Texas has been having a mass influx and it hasn't been that way for years as it has for California. So historically speaking, I'm not so sure what to say about Texas not having multiculturalism for as long, but I am here to say that whether the immigration of different cultures into the state has been recent or not, it is still pretty diverse for the fact that the migration has been so fast and to go out to these country towns and find Hindu temples, Lebanese fairs(had one about a month ago around my area), and blacks, whites, and Latinos spending time together can be a little bit of a shock(for me at least) because you hear all these stories about how some of these towns are unacceptable.

With all that I said the other thing I have to put in about Texas is that the cities aren't badly segregated either or it's starting to fade away. I mean you can look at things historically and then see yes it's there(I mean you'd be crazy to say that there aren't areas that are predominantly white, black, or Latino), but when you look at it in today's light, people just move where they can in the cities and everyone ends up mixing up.

Does any of that make sense? lol
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 6,358,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovely95 View Post
Right, right. In modern times, the different groups get along pretty well in Texas but it did have a pretty racist past. The other thing I have to say about that is that I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be nowadays. Mexicans, blacks and whites in Texas have just learned to deal with each other in most areas. Though I'm glad you included some California history in there as well because I sort of view it the same as Texas in a way; lots of diverse peoples, but not exactly the best past with that diversity. Sometimes people tend to forget that state had issues of it's own, maybe not necessarily the same as the south, but it was strict nonetheless, especially against Asians.

I do have to put in, aside from the Asians, Texas has had to deal with diversity for a very long time. If you're talking just Asians in general, then yes, for recent times Texas has been having a mass influx and it hasn't been that way for years as it has for California. So historically speaking, I'm not so sure what to say about Texas not having multiculturalism for as long, but I am here to say that whether the immigration of different cultures into the state has been recent or not, it is still pretty diverse for the fact that the migration has been so fast and to go out to these country towns and find Hindu temples, Lebanese fairs(had one about a month ago around my area), and blacks, whites, and Latinos spending time together can be a little bit of a shock(for me at least) because you hear all these stories about how some of these towns are unacceptable.

With all that I said the other thing I have to put in about Texas is that the cities aren't badly segregated either or it's starting to fade away. I mean you can look at things historically and then see yes it's there(I mean you'd be crazy to say that there aren't areas that are predominantly white, black, or Latino), but when you look at it in today's light, people just move where they can in the cities and everyone ends up mixing up.

Does any of that make sense?
lol
It all makes sense. I think most people on City Data don't give enough credit to Texas for how accepting most Texans have been towards the more recent arrivals to America. Most of the anti-immigrant hysteria comes from California (surprise surprise) rather than the supposedly redneck state of Texas. I'm not talking about ages ago when 'Orientals' were considered dirt, but I'm talking about the recent day and age. Unfortunately, Pete Wilson used illegal immigration as his platform to get re-elected as governor in 1994, and has been a salient issue on the national stage ever since.

California Proposition 187 (1994) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, since California has the ultra-liberal areas of Los Angeles and San Francisco and is associated as such (everyone thinks of the Golden Gate Bridge and the Hollywood sign), California gets a slide and Texas gets shafted.

I actually think California and Texas have way more in common than meets the eye. Both were frontier states, and as frontier states, they acted as cauldrons of Americanization. However, the idea of an American 'pioneer' was restricted to European Americans, and others were pushed to the wayside. Frederick Jackson Turner's The Frontier in American History sheds light on the idea that the epitome of the American ethos was Westward expansion.

The frontier in American history - Google Books

Texas was settled by mostly Anglo Whites from the South (with some from the Northeast and Midwest), while California attracted newcomers from all over, especially the Midwest and Northeast (and only 7% from the South). Up until very recently, California was probably a more backward state in terms of race relations than Texas, since only a very particular chunk of the population was considered American, never mind white or non-white. Hell, the first anti-Chinese movement was started by an Irishman, Dennis Kearney, who believed that the Chinese were lowering the 'white man's wages'.

However, both states still have the new 'frontier' spirit that made relations between groups much more fluid than in the more parochial Northeast and Deep South. You can find examples ALL OVER HISTORY of frontier zones were zones of cultural contact, that eventually became the framework of a multicultural society. Unlike Jackon's contention, I wholeheartedly believe the frontier affected American society WAY MORE than the other way around.

It will all take time to fix, at the end of the day.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in the universe
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Yeah I think Texas gets more of a bad rep for race relations when many other states practiced in horrible acts as well. I think this country as a whole has a bit of a ways to go, but we are starting to break down those barriers. It's just weird how people view the two states so differently when there are some things that aren't too much different and some can't quite grasp that things have changes in this day and age.

I think this topic in general is sort of hard though. It's easy to pinpoint a segregated city, but to mention a whole state is kind of hard for me.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,686 posts, read 33,686,426 times
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Just because there is a mix in the states, doesn't mean there's an intermingling in the neighborhoods.
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