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Old 09-05-2016, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Nashville TN, Cincinnati, OH
1,798 posts, read 1,167,083 times
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America is getting more socially liberal now which is cool, or at the least more tolerant but I live in Miami Beach and almost everyone is a minority so I could be wrong.
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:01 AM
 
3,618 posts, read 1,570,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Alot of comments about black people being so much better off. I am really skeptical.

No kids shooting each other over a pair of Air Jordans, no guys standing on a corner selling baggies, people took pride in actually speaking English (as opposed to "ya boi dat n*gga b a uncle tom"), the vast majority of black people grew up in a two parent household (today it is in the inverse, about 80% of kids born out of wedlock), people dressing respectably instead of pants around their knees, education was valued instead of being the mark of "selling out" or "acting white", jazz instead of gangsta rap, the list goes on.

Most blacks self segregate now anyways.

What also makes me skeptical to begin with is that many elderly black people who have actually seen both worlds don't seem to think things are all that better now, but just different. I think we are taught to think that segregation was a lot worse than it actually was and we learn about how horrible white people used to be (as opposed to modern white people who have "seen the light"). Maybe we have a subconscious need to believe things are better now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
I'm black and I'm from Maryland which is one of the blackest states in America, and home to the biggest black middle class in America and richest black county in America, also Baltimore, DC and Philadelphia, all majority black cities are the local urban areas. Is that valid enough? I don't know why you're perspective would be more "valid" than a non-black person's anyway, yet ironically you are calling me ignorant as you assume a slew of things about me that are incorrect, as if what I'm talking about doesn't describe the harsh reality for lots of black people that we like to sweep under the rug. Ask the black lives matter movement themselves - are they happy with how things are right now?

Just sayin', what I described is the plight of many black people although it sucks to talk about it. Go to Detroit in 1960, it's Motown, today it's a byword for a warzone. Go to Baltimore in 1960 and see black industrial workers with full employment, go there now and see people sitting on stoops heckling passerbys and collecting a free check. Even in the black mecca of Atlanta, lots of guys just sitting around calling themselves N words segregating themselves anyways, and coming up with new ways to prove how hard they are to their boys. We can pretend it's not true, or debate who is to blame for this, but it is the living situation for a large percentage of many black Americans, it's not we are talking about a tiny minority, anyone who is being honest with themselves knows this. Most black people don't live somewhere like Colorado, or Oregon, or northern California, they live in urbanized areas in the east, especially in the south, and reside in mostly or all black areas, those are simply facts.

Would I want to be segregated or be torn apart from the white members of my family? No, not really, but for a huge swath of the black community there are some obvious pluses to being black in 1960 compared to 2015, especially the people are already self-segregate and make it clear that they don't like white people all that much to begin with, but have no job in 2015 where they would have had a decent one in 1960, didn't fear gang members, and had a stable home/community. Of course this doesn't apply to the black Americans who are middle class and have a decent job and a college degree, of course they benefit more from living in 2015, but those black people are only a minority. I don't see what's wrong with being open to examining both sides of the coin.

I think alot of it has to do with social reforms of the 1960s and the growth of the welfare state . There has been an enormous decline in the black family since the 1950s. In the 1950s the black family unit was stronger than whites, In 1950, 17 percent of African-American children lived in a home with their mother and no father and only eight percent of childbirths in the Black community occurred out-of-wedlock, today that out-of-wedlock childbirth rate in the Black community is at 72 percent!

In the 1950s blacks had higher marriage rates than whites today ,but if men cant provide for their families they arent going to get married .Maybe people in the 1950s had more optimism about the future of our cities, in the 1950s cities like Detroit and St louis and Milwaukee and Cleveland had very similar per capita incomes to places like NYC, now its just gentrification and fewer and fewer cities and people getting richer

There is just such an enormous disconnect between the liberal black middle class and the black underclass and the liberal white middle class and the every underclass that I dont see how you really fix the inner cities unless you start talking about the rise of women headed families and poverty and the failures of the welfare state . These are the stats that show the rise of single parent family, really shows what moynihan was warning bout


https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...all.jpg&w=1484
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:45 PM
 
Location: SE PA via North jerz
184 posts, read 149,279 times
Reputation: 193
Well America had a far better economy back then but slightly more discrimination, it was more open. But like I said, the US was actually a economic powerhouse back then. I think this is what Trump is talking about when he says "Make America great again".

Last edited by DarkLoFan; 09-05-2016 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:10 PM
 
Location: .N6 A4
3,485 posts, read 4,380,350 times
Reputation: 2812
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
What also makes me skeptical to begin with is that many elderly black people who have actually seen both worlds don't seem to think things are all that better now, but just different. I think we are taught to think that segregation was a lot worse than it actually was and we learn about how horrible white people used to be (as opposed to modern white people who have "seen the light"). Maybe we have a subconscious need to believe things are better now.
I remember talking with a middle-aged black co-worker a long while back (probably in the 90s) who shocked me at the time by emphasizing that at least under segregation there were more black businesses, many of which went under after desegregation. He wasn't really sold on the idea that things had improved overall for African-Americans. As you point out, there is also the increased deterioration of the black family since then.

(And I'm obviously talking about averages here. I'm not denying that there are intact black families or that there is a black middle class.)

Last edited by ApartmentNomad; 09-05-2016 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:41 PM
 
Location: .N6 A4
3,485 posts, read 4,380,350 times
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In general, I think we are living through a period of dramatic change, the advent of a new historical era of some sort. The coming of age of the internet and all of the associated communications technology is absolutely huge, and we don't yet know what all the positive and negative fallout will be. Personally, I'm worried that the extreme change in our electromagnetic environment is doing damage we don't yet understand. But that's just one angle.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about which time period is better overall. Not that long ago I probably would have dismissed out of hand the idea that 50s and 60s were better, but I'm not so sure these days.
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:43 PM
 
7,744 posts, read 4,584,665 times
Reputation: 8450
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
I think alot of it has to do with social reforms of the 1960s and the growth of the welfare state . There has been an enormous decline in the black family since the 1950s. In the 1950s the black family unit was stronger than whites, In 1950, 17 percent of African-American children lived in a home with their mother and no father and only eight percent of childbirths in the Black community occurred out-of-wedlock, today that out-of-wedlock childbirth rate in the Black community is at 72 percent!

In the 1950s blacks had higher marriage rates than whites today ,but if men cant provide for their families they arent going to get married .Maybe people in the 1950s had more optimism about the future of our cities, in the 1950s cities like Detroit and St louis and Milwaukee and Cleveland had very similar per capita incomes to places like NYC, now its just gentrification and fewer and fewer cities and people getting richer

There is just such an enormous disconnect between the liberal black middle class and the black underclass and the liberal white middle class and the every underclass that I dont see how you really fix the inner cities unless you start talking about the rise of women headed families and poverty and the failures of the welfare state . These are the stats that show the rise of single parent family, really shows what moynihan was warning bout


https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...all.jpg&w=1484
Except, in 1959, 54% of Black families lived in poverty. Today it's 25%

http://povertyinamerica.mit.edu/down...america_p1.pdf
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/C...mo/p60-252.pdf


All of your right-wing talking points about unwed mothers, welfare state and inner-city decay are wrong. Things were MUCH WORSE for Black people in the "Good ol days".

I'm sorry, but any argument that suggest that life was better for black people before we became full citizens of this country with equal protection under the law is a hair's breadth away from suggesting that we might've been better off during slavery.
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:50 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,168 posts, read 6,500,461 times
Reputation: 8034
Wish I could go back and be stuck in the 50s for the rest of my life. America is not the same country it was then. People can argue all they want but it was much happier times.
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,306 posts, read 19,577,939 times
Reputation: 13092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
Wish I could go back and be stuck in the 50s for the rest of my life. America is not the same country it was then. People can argue all they want but it was much happier times.
Well, I guess it's true that you really can't teach an old dog new tricks. ;-)
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:34 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,168 posts, read 6,500,461 times
Reputation: 8034
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Well, I guess it's true that you really can't teach an old dog new tricks. ;-)

What an ignorant reply. Shows how much you know.
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
895 posts, read 544,655 times
Reputation: 2201
I have to say growing up in California back in the 50's and 60's were great. All of us kids used our imaginations to have fun but in a good way. There were no PC's...X Box yada yada yada. We built forts- had carnivals - talent shows in our garages/yards. We walked to the beach during the summer...(grew up in Torrance and walked over the hill to Redondo Beach)
Our parents did not fret about us. We were slim and trim from all the walking actually. Hung out at Sears- Broadway - May Co. if we got bored going to the beach.

I really think about those days a lot. I will say it was a blessing when the civil rights movement happened. I was a youngster but looking back as an adult - Thank God for MLK. Life changed a tad and only got better for the Blacks. That was a positive.

There was not a lot of crime back in those days that I can recall. My parents left their front door unlocked. We stayed out until late at night during the summer months. Again, we were all in pretty good shape because we did a lot of walking and it never bothered us.

Our schools had summer programs and I do not see that anymore. The Recreational Dept for City of Torrance would take us on field trips during the summer. Heck, I learned to ballroom dance in the 7th/8th grade. I'm telling you it was a different time for sure. I use to walk home for lunch during grammar school. Oh those days....

I feel bad for the kids of today. Noses are in their phones. No face to face communication. 50's and 60's were fun! Rock on Beach Boys...:-)
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