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View Poll Results: Which time period was better?
the 80's & 90's 229 69.82%
the 00's/now 99 30.18%
Voters: 328. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2012, 07:51 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M_Indie_08 View Post
Peoples fashion these days screams "I'm a douche" Fashion is horrible these days
The hipster trends like the extremely obnoxious designs of plastic frame glasses or scarves with everything
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:28 PM
 
2,490 posts, read 3,746,857 times
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The 1980s and 1990s were better but people were unaware of what was to come during the 2000s. It's like during the 1920s, people were all happy and optimistic but unaware of the Great Depression and WWII that was coming ahead.


History follows a pattern in terms of economic growth and the events that occur.

The 2000s were like the 1920s. Widening inequality gap between the rich and the poor. People were buying materialistic things on credit and building up debt. The mood was spend, spend, spend without realization of what problems this may cause.

So far the late 2000s and 2010s have followed the late 1920s and early 1930s. We're in a downcast era and winding down from the wild years of the 1980s-2000s. Kind of like during the 1930s, we wound down from the 1910s and 1920s.

The in the 1940s, came WWII. The Civil War occurred 80 years earlier in the 1860s. The American Revolution in 1770-1780s.

After these periods of economic recession and wars, came periods of economic revitalization. (The 1950s boom after WWII, the Reconstruction after the Civil War, etc.)

If history repeats itself, we'll see another war in the 2020s and see another 1950s like era during the 2030s.

The things that happen now are a foreshadow of the things to come.

Last edited by 90sman; 02-27-2012 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,832 posts, read 7,677,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M_Indie_08 View Post
Peoples fashion these days screams "I'm a douche" Fashion is horrible these days
I'm not a fan of hipsters, but even they dress better than their 80's forefathers(college rockers). And don't even get me started on the New Romantics.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:29 AM
 
195 posts, read 559,789 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
A very large facet of life!

People don't dress entirely different (although I can certainly tell when a TV show is from 1998, vs. from 2012 or from 1991, regardless of the video quality), I give you that.

As for bands, according to who? Lady Gaga did not exist in the 1990's. She didn't exist until 2007 or so. Katy Perry was an obscure CHRISTIAN singer in the early 2000's. Adele was unheard of. And let's see the top 10...

1. Katy Perry
2. Adele
3. Whitney Houston - Only because she just died.
4. Kelly Clarkson - Began her career after winning the first or second American Idol - in 2002 or 2003....
5. Adele
6. Gotye feat. Kimbra - Didn't rise to prominence until just lately
7. Adele
8. Rihanna - First time in the charts was with "Pon de Replay" in 2005 IIRC...
9. Nicki Minaj - Didn't hear of her before 2010...
10. Chris Brown - First heard of him in 2007 or so...
11. David Guetta feat. Nicki Minaj - David Guetta has only been known in the U.S. since 2009 or so
12. Flo-Rida - Didn't he debut in the charts with "Right Round" in 2008 or so?
13. LMFAO - Debuted in the charts around 2010
14. Snoop Dogg, Wiz Khalifa (first time I heard of him was in 2008), and Bruno Mars (first time I heard of him was around 2009)
15. Tyga - Never even heard of him...looks like his first activity was mixtape in 2007, according to his Wiki page
16. Bruno Mars
17. Pitbull (rose to popularity in 2009) feat. Chris Brown
18. Jessie J - career began in 2006 according to Wiki
19. Drake (first mixtape released in 2006) feat. Lil' Wayne (first top 40 hit was in 2004, only really broke out in 2008 or so with "Lollipop")
20. Coldplay - First album released in 2000

(Source: Billboard, Wikipedia)

So, out of the 20 or so artists on the Top 20, only two were at all famous in the 1990's, and one of those holds the chart because of her recent death.

Let's see what was popular in the late 1990s: boy bands (totally out today), mellow rock bands like Savage Garden, Our Lady Peace, Matchbox 20, etc. (none of them are popular any more), punk rock bands like Blink 182 (haven't heard of them in a LONG time), "harder" bands like Limp Bizkit, and girl singers like Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and Jennifer Lopez (still somewhat popular, but usually after radical image changes).

Play pop radio to somebody who has been in a coma since 1999 and they will not recognize any of the music. Lots of innovation has taken place since then.

And I would argue that the slang, at least among young people, is different now. Numerous new terms have been popularized to describe things sexual. The construction "get your # on" seems to be more popular than ever. Twitter and FB have done a large part in popularizing other slang expressions.
Nobody on that list is more famous than Eminem, Jay-Z, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Madonna, or U2 right now. These are all genre defining stars, you're naming 2nd tier celebrities, which there's always gonna be a ton of those.

Now, I never said that NOBODY has gotten famous who wasn't famous in the '90s. That's impossible, because time goes on and there's bound to be new artists, what I'm saying is that music used to have seismic shifts.

When I was a kid the idea of a rapper being famous for 20 years was absurd. Run-DMC were considered old men 8 years into their careers, now you have a ton of rappers who are far over 10 years in the game like Jay-Z, Eminem, Snoop, Dr. Dre, P.Diddy, The Wu-Tang Clan etc. . . That was unheard of in the '90s. Guys used to get 4 years and then they were through basically with a few exceptions, because Hip-Hop used to change dramatically. Just look at a picture of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five in the early '80s. This is how rappers used to dress in 1982, 1983.

http://www.ratedwrong.com/storage/gr...=1269001389653


Now, look at Run DMC & Eric B. & Rakim just about 3 or 4 years later.

http://www.htbackdrops.com/v2/albums..._folder_27.jpg

http://allindstrom.com/wordpress/wp-...c+B++Rakim.jpg

Now, THAT is a huge transition. From looking like gay punk rockers, to round the way boys in a few years.


Look at rock music. This is what the average rock star looked like in the mid to late '80s.

http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/9711_Motley_Crue-10.jpg (broken link)

http://www.hartford.com/admin/upload...fb86_large.jpg

To this in about 1992, 1993

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...ist-NO-007.jpg

http://www.billboard.com/photos/arti...-pearl-jam.jpg

That is HUGE seismic shifts in cultures.

The difference from Michael Jackson, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Lionel Richie, and Phil Collins to Nirvana, Snoop Doggy Dogg, The Wu-Tang Clan, Pearl Jam, & Alice In Chains was HUGE culturally. Look at Alanis Morrissette in the '80s and look at her in the '90s. That's the difference.


Alanis Morissette - Too Hot - YouTube

And her a few years later in the mid '90s.


Alanis Morissette - You Oughta Know (Video) - YouTube



The problem with the artists of this era is that they're all COPYING artists from the past.

Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Jesse J, and all of the dance pop divas are copying Madonna, Grace Jones, and have kind of an ironic '80s style to them. They're not doing anything new.

Those rappers are doing just pop rap, which isn't that far from what Jay-Z, Biggie Smalls, Mase, and Puff Daddy were doing in the '90s.

Adele, Amy Winehouse, and all of those singers are aping '60s soul music.

Chris Brown, Usher, Justin Timberlake, and Justin Bieber ALL want to be Michael Jackson who was at his peak in the '80s and '90s.

All of those new artists aren't really doing anything dramatically different to anybody, if anything they're just REHASHING things.

There was nothing like synth pop, hair metal, hip-hop, house music, techno, etc BEFORE those things existed. They were completely new creations at the time they came to prominence .

All those artists you named are doing is repeating those things that were pioneered in the '80s and '90s.

That's why it doesn't feel like a seismic shift.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:51 AM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,207,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The hipster trends like the extremely obnoxious designs of plastic frame glasses or scarves with everything
I tend to agree, Granite. Trust me, I see them every day on the train!
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Terramaria
774 posts, read 841,779 times
Reputation: 910
For the suburbs, I'd say the 80's were the best. Shopping malls were at their peak, the concept of the McMansion wasn't around, and people were content with Station Wagons, and later, Minivans. The crime problems of the inner cities were much lower in the suburbs, plus with malls having arcades and other cool stores was the hangout not just for teens, but young adults as well. Traffic was also better back then as well and you didn't have development everywhere like you do now. The 90's were almost as good, but increasing traffic and that rap crap we're taking over, as well as the start of the inner city people moving out to the first ring suburbs (though the outer suburbs were still great in the 90's with low gas prices).

For the cities, the 90's were the best. Gentrification, a drop in crime, and more amenities opening made it a more diverse, friendly setting.

Either way, since 2000 we've had to deal with less face time, more security barriers, higher gas prices, more foreign competition, a higher rate of planned obsolecence, and unfortunately less "original" culture. Much of the highest grossing films made in the past decade are sequels or remakes, and we've regressed back to the 1920s style for an oscar winner. It's not all bad given that its easier to help someone in need these days and there are more options available to enjoy various offerings, either current or rereleases. It just could be that pop culture is getting rather stale.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,653 posts, read 15,337,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post
Nobody on that list is more famous than Eminem, Jay-Z, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Madonna, or U2 right now. These are all genre defining stars, you're naming 2nd tier celebrities, which there's always gonna be a ton of those.
Yes, but they have had the ability to build up there base to massive proportions over the years. Britney Spears wouldn't be on that list in 1999, nor would Eminem. They were new then.

Also, Beyonce's solo work only took of around 2003. Before she was with Destiny's Child.

Quote:
Now, I never said that NOBODY has gotten famous who wasn't famous in the '90s. That's impossible, because time goes on and there's bound to be new artists, what I'm saying is that music used to have seismic shifts.

When I was a kid the idea of a rapper being famous for 20 years was absurd. Run-DMC were considered old men 8 years into their careers, now you have a ton of rappers who are far over 10 years in the game like Jay-Z, Eminem, Snoop, Dr. Dre, P.Diddy, The Wu-Tang Clan etc. . . That was unheard of in the '90s. Guys used to get 4 years and then they were through basically with a few exceptions, because Hip-Hop used to change dramatically. Just look at a picture of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five in the early '80s. This is how rappers used to dress in 1982, 1983.

http://www.ratedwrong.com/storage/gr...=1269001389653


Now, look at Run DMC & Eric B. & Rakim just about 3 or 4 years later.

http://www.htbackdrops.com/v2/albums..._folder_27.jpg

http://allindstrom.com/wordpress/wp-...c+B++Rakim.jpg

Now, THAT is a huge transition. From looking like gay punk rockers, to round the way boys in a few years.


Look at rock music. This is what the average rock star looked like in the mid to late '80s.

http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/9711_Motley_Crue-10.jpg (broken link)

http://www.hartford.com/admin/upload...fb86_large.jpg

To this in about 1992, 1993

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...ist-NO-007.jpg

http://www.billboard.com/photos/arti...-pearl-jam.jpg

That is HUGE seismic shifts in cultures.

The difference from Michael Jackson, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Lionel Richie, and Phil Collins to Nirvana, Snoop Doggy Dogg, The Wu-Tang Clan, Pearl Jam, & Alice In Chains was HUGE culturally. Look at Alanis Morrissette in the '80s and look at her in the '90s. That's the difference.


Alanis Morissette - Too Hot - YouTube

And her a few years later in the mid '90s.


Alanis Morissette - You Oughta Know (Video) - YouTube
And there have been a number of innovations in "look" since the 1990's too, although not as many as elsewhere in society.

Quote:
The problem with the artists of this era is that they're all COPYING artists from the past.

Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Jesse J, and all of the dance pop divas are copying Madonna, Grace Jones, and have kind of an ironic '80s style to them. They're not doing anything new.

Those rappers are doing just pop rap, which isn't that far from what Jay-Z, Biggie Smalls, Mase, and Puff Daddy were doing in the '90s.

Adele, Amy Winehouse, and all of those singers are aping '60s soul music.

Chris Brown, Usher, Justin Timberlake, and Justin Bieber ALL want to be Michael Jackson who was at his peak in the '80s and '90s.

All of those new artists aren't really doing anything dramatically different to anybody, if anything they're just REHASHING things.

There was nothing like synth pop, hair metal, hip-hop, house music, techno, etc BEFORE those things existed. They were completely new creations at the time they came to prominence .

All those artists you named are doing is repeating those things that were pioneered in the '80s and '90s.

That's why it doesn't feel like a seismic shift.
Electro-pop was not at all popular in the United States before 2008. By "electro-pop" I mean stuff like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Ke$ha, etc. David Guetta was the first real famous DJ in the US. More striking is the fusion of electro-pop and rap, reminiscent of the eurodance diva-rapper ballads which did not have staying power in the U.S. but dominated European music for two or three years in the '90s. In fact, "electronic music" - house, trance, techno - never really rose out of the underground / club / gay scene until 2009 (with the possible exception of synth-pop / new wave in the 1980's). Meanwhile, it was played on the radio all across Europe, and in some countries, appeared to be the dominant form of local pop music in the 2000's. There were occasional hits: Snap's "Rhythm is a Dancer" in 1992, Real McCoy's "Another Night" in 1995, DHT's "Listen to Your Heart" in 2005, and so on. But it never caught on as the dominant pop music style until 2009. Now it dominates pop radio.

Rap has also been affected by the electro-pop tide. Back in the 1990s and especially 2000s, melody was an afterthought in rap. It was all about the "beat" - in fact, in popular usage "beat" meant rhythm as well as melody, to underscore its lack of importance. Rap in the U.S. also almost invariably followed a slow, syncopated rhythm.

Then, in about 2008-2009, hits began to come out like Flo Rida's "Sugar" (samples Eiffel 65's "Blue"), Rihanna feat. T.I.'s "Live Your Life" (samples O-Zones "Dragosta din Tei", and P.M.'s "Around the World" (samples Daft Punk's song by the same name). Numerous other hits like this lined the charts in 2010 and 2011...most recently Flo-Rida's "Good Feeling" (which samples Avicii's "Le7els".

This was a revolutionary change in my opinion. Tracks that would sound incredibly "gay" in 2004 or 2005 - compared to Lil Jon's "Get Low", D4L's "Laffy Taffy", or Snoop Dogg's "Drop It Like It's Hot" suddenly were huge hits. In fact, the last even collaborated with Katy Perry in "California Gurls" - a move that might have seemed "homo" just two years before. Rap found melody, and it occasionally found a four-on-the-floor beat which was quite novel.

All that needs to be shown to demonstrate this change is a comparison between:


Snoop Dogg - Drop It Like Its Hot (LYRICS + PICTURES) - YouTube

and


Florida Good feeling - YouTube

That last track would be totally unimaginable in the penultimate track's days.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:23 PM
 
195 posts, read 559,789 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Yes, but they have had the ability to build up there base to massive proportions over the years. Britney Spears wouldn't be on that list in 1999, nor would Eminem. They were new then.

Also, Beyonce's solo work only took of around 2003. Before she was with Destiny's Child.



And there have been a number of innovations in "look" since the 1990's too, although not as many as elsewhere in society.



Electro-pop was not at all popular in the United States before 2008. By "electro-pop" I mean stuff like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Ke$ha, etc. David Guetta was the first real famous DJ in the US. More striking is the fusion of electro-pop and rap, reminiscent of the eurodance diva-rapper ballads which did not have staying power in the U.S. but dominated European music for two or three years in the '90s. In fact, "electronic music" - house, trance, techno - never really rose out of the underground / club / gay scene until 2009 (with the possible exception of synth-pop / new wave in the 1980's). Meanwhile, it was played on the radio all across Europe, and in some countries, appeared to be the dominant form of local pop music in the 2000's. There were occasional hits: Snap's "Rhythm is a Dancer" in 1992, Real McCoy's "Another Night" in 1995, DHT's "Listen to Your Heart" in 2005, and so on. But it never caught on as the dominant pop music style until 2009. Now it dominates pop radio.

Rap has also been affected by the electro-pop tide. Back in the 1990s and especially 2000s, melody was an afterthought in rap. It was all about the "beat" - in fact, in popular usage "beat" meant rhythm as well as melody, to underscore its lack of importance. Rap in the U.S. also almost invariably followed a slow, syncopated rhythm.

Then, in about 2008-2009, hits began to come out like Flo Rida's "Sugar" (samples Eiffel 65's "Blue"), Rihanna feat. T.I.'s "Live Your Life" (samples O-Zones "Dragosta din Tei", and P.M.'s "Around the World" (samples Daft Punk's song by the same name). Numerous other hits like this lined the charts in 2010 and 2011...most recently Flo-Rida's "Good Feeling" (which samples Avicii's "Le7els".

This was a revolutionary change in my opinion. Tracks that would sound incredibly "gay" in 2004 or 2005 - compared to Lil Jon's "Get Low", D4L's "Laffy Taffy", or Snoop Dogg's "Drop It Like It's Hot" suddenly were huge hits. In fact, the last even collaborated with Katy Perry in "California Gurls" - a move that might have seemed "homo" just two years before. Rap found melody, and it occasionally found a four-on-the-floor beat which was quite novel.

All that needs to be shown to demonstrate this change is a comparison between:


Snoop Dogg - Drop It Like Its Hot (LYRICS + PICTURES) - YouTube

and


Florida Good feeling - YouTube

That last track would be totally unimaginable in the penultimate track's days.

A. Beyonce was in Destiny's Child, which is the biggest girl group in HISTORY. She blew up as a solo artist in 2003, but she was already a superstar in the late '90s.

B. Are you serious that electro-pop & house music wasn't popular until 2008 in America?

I'll just let Wikipedia straighten you out on that one.

Synthpop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

House music was huge in the '80s and '90s mang. You never heard of Dee-Lite? C&C Music Factory? Black Box? CeCe Peniston? Inner City? Technotronic? They made HUGE records in the late '80s.

C. I agree Hip-Hop has gotten a lot poppier over the years, but it's not a seismic shift. It's not the same as going from Grandmaster Flash to N.W.A.

Today's rappers are more like a continuation of what Puffy, Mase, Ja-Rule, and Nelly were doing in the late '90s, as opposed to being crazy different. They're just lamer, but it's not like they're talking about different stuff.

The '80s saw all of Hip-Hop going from being exclusively party rap to in the mid to late '80s taking a harsher gangster and Afrocentric slant. That's a huge difference. Going from party, party, to "I'm going to kill everybody" is huge.

Rappers today are just bragging over girly beats, which is exactly what made Ja-Rule and Nelly millions of dollars in the late '90s, early '00s.

You're saying that rappers didn't make records with pop stars until recently, but Jay-Z was making records with Mya in the '90s. Ja-Rule was making records with J-Lo. Even Big Pun & Fat Joe were making records with J-Lo. Snoop worked with Britney Spears 10 years ago. P. Diddy did records with Dream. Old Dirty Bastard was working with Mariah Carey in the mid '90s.

It's all been done before.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,653 posts, read 15,337,656 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post
A. Beyonce was in Destiny's Child, which is the biggest girl group in HISTORY. She blew up as a solo artist in 2003, but she was already a superstar in the late '90s.
Yes, but before then she was only a part of Destiny's Child. I didn't know Beyonce; I knew Destiny's Child. And I don't know too much about those kind of bands, but I bet TLC would give them a run for their money - and at least that singer from TLC got famous as an individual when she burnt her man's mansion down.

Simply put, when she began doing solo work, she took on an individual identity that she never had before.

Quote:
B. Are you serious that electro-pop & house music wasn't popular until 2008 in America?

I'll just let Wikipedia straighten you out on that one.

Synthpop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

House music was huge in the '80s and '90s mang. You never heard of Dee-Lite? C&C Music Factory? Black Box? CeCe Peniston? Inner City? Technotronic? They made HUGE records in the late '80s.
I made an exception for synthpop / new wave music during the 1980s. As for the house stars, yes, I do admit they were very popular and I kind of overlooked them, but they did not dominate the U.S. charts in the same way that electro-pop does today.

Also, I don't think it's at all suitable to group Katy Perry and Lady Gaga in with Depeche Mode and New Order. Although they all synthesizer-driven music, the nature of the synthesizer is that it can take on all kinds of different sounds.

Quote:
C. I agree Hip-Hop has gotten a lot poppier over the years, but it's not a seismic shift. It's not the same as going from Grandmaster Flash to N.W.A.

Today's rappers are more like a continuation of what Puffy, Mase, Ja-Rule, and Nelly were doing in the late '90s, as opposed to being crazy different. They're just lamer, but it's not like they're talking about different stuff.

The '80s saw all of Hip-Hop going from being exclusively party rap to in the mid to late '80s taking a harsher gangster and Afrocentric slant. That's a huge difference. Going from party, party, to "I'm going to kill everybody" is huge.

Rappers today are just bragging over girly beats, which is exactly what made Ja-Rule and Nelly millions of dollars in the late '90s, early '00s.

You're saying that rappers didn't make records with pop stars until recently, but Jay-Z was making records with Mya in the '90s. Ja-Rule was making records with J-Lo. Even Big Pun & Fat Joe were making records with J-Lo. Snoop worked with Britney Spears 10 years ago. P. Diddy did records with Dream. Old Dirty Bastard was working with Mariah Carey in the mid '90s.

It's all been done before.
Yes, it is a seismic shift. Or almost that.

I didn't say that rappers didn't make records with pop stars. I said that today's music with rappers in it sounds a lot like the eurodance diva-and-rapper combination in the 1990s (Real McCoy and La Bouche were two bands of that type of music who became somewhat popular in the US), which was sung / rapped over a fast 4/4 dance beat. Not a male rapper / female R & B combo like Jay-Z & Mya or Old Dirty Bastard and Mariah Carey over a slow rap beat. That's obviously been popular in the U.S. for a long time. I'm talking about stuff like this:


La Bouche- Be My Lover - YouTube


Darkness - In My Dreams HD 720p (Official Video) - YouTube

I don't know of any American rap hit before 2009 that used a fast, 4/4 disco beat (>125 BPM). That's enough of a change. It might not be in the "image" the rappers want to convey, but it is in the music itself. Most rap back in the '90s was under 100-110 BPM, usually in the 90-100 BPM range. Most of Dr. Dre's (hit) tracks were between 85 and 95 BPM; Snoop Dogg's tracks were generally between 75 and 105 BPM. The majority of 2Pac's songs were from 75 to 110 BPM. Ice Cube does have a lot of songs that appear fast in the BPM listing for DJ's, although upon listening to them it appears that he used some technique that doubled the BPMs (deceptive 2/4 cadences?) while maintaining the same rhythm. Even in the mid-2000s, most hit rap was slow: Nelly's "Shake Ya Tailfeather" was 87 BPM, 50 Cent's "In Da Club" was 90 BPM. Now for comparison, Flo-Rida - a rapper in the current style - sets most of his tracks at around 125-130 BPM.

Last edited by tvdxer; 02-29-2012 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:40 PM
 
39 posts, read 48,130 times
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The 1980s were the best. The 00s were slightly better than the 90s. The 90s were the worst. The best time was between 1984-1989.
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