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Old 01-26-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago =)
307 posts, read 443,532 times
Reputation: 233

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colts View Post
I sure have.

I fondly remember Super Bowl XLI and the endless derogatory remarks aimed at the city of Indianapolis, and its citizens--not even the team itself. Over a freaking football game. And this is just the first thing I can think of from off the top of my head. Of course, it didn't work out too well for them in the end.

Again, many large cities do have superiority complexes, but I've never seen anything on the level of a Chicago.
Its football.
America takes sports very seriously
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,496,767 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Lakes View Post
This makes no sense. The only reason Columbus is bigger than Cleveland or Cincy is because it was able to annex a bunch of land around it (basically all those cities and towns you don't like to include). Cleveland and Cincy would be bigger than Columbus if they had equal land areas in the city proper.

Columbus:213 sq miles
Cleveland:83 sq miles
Cincy:80 sq miles
The 213 miles does not include all the towns and cities that the MSA does, which is what I have a problem with. It includes only areas within the city limits. And yes, I know that Columbus is has a much bigger area of land. The original post I was responding to was about it taking 30 years for Columbus to surpass the Cleveland MSA. I responded with population rates. The fact is that if you cut off 130 square miles, you'd probably knock out half the population or so, right? Probably a bit more even. Cut in half, Columbus' 770,000 would still be more than Cincy's, and wouldn't be too far behind Cleveland's. Anyway, it's not a big deal. Like I said, I like all 3 cities. I root for anything in my home state.

As far as the OT goes, I like Chicago, but it's just at the periphery. I don't think most people think about it either way.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,321,280 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
While you're right that Columbus may not continue to grow at this pace, and that Cleveland may not remain shrinking, there is nothing to suggest otherwise in the next 5 years at least.

Here are the 2009 stats (the latest that are availabe on the Census site) on Ohio's largest 3 cities:

Cleveland MSA (metropolitan statistical area): 2,091,286
Columbus MSA: 1,801,848
Cincinnati MSA: 2,171,896

So according to that stat, Cincy is actually the largest metro area. But again, I don't like using MSAs just because they include so many other areas. For example, Cincy includes Middletown, Columbus includes Chillicothe, and Cleveland includes Mentor, etc. All of those towns/cities may be somewhat close, but it's not as if these merely suburbs. They are individual places. That's why I like city-limit data a lot more. That said, here are the growth rates for the MSAs for the 3.

Cleveland: 2008-09 -0.1% or a loss of 2,765 people
Columbus: 2008-09 +1.2% or a gain of 22,026 people
Cincinnati: 2008-09 +0.6% or a gain of 13,253 people.

So clearly, at least based on that data, Columbus is the fastest growing in terms of both people and %. It's literally double Cincy's rate, at least from 08 to 09.

Let's look at 2000-2009 for the same MSAs.

Cleveland
2009: 2,091,286
2000: 2,148,017
Loss of 56,731 or a percentage loss of 2.6%

Columbus
2009: 1,801,848
2000: 1,612,843
Gain of 189,005 or an 11.7% gain.

Cincinnati
2009: 2,171,896
2000: 2,009,651
Gain of 162,245 or an 8.1% gain.

So again, Columbus again has the best gains in the last decade.

Now let's look at just the cities themselves and not the MSAs. Again the stats are for 2009.

Cleveland: 431,369
This number was a 9.7% drop from 2000 and represented the 3rd worst decline of any city over 100,000 people in the nation. Only Flint, Michigan and New Orleans lost more, and it took Katrina to do that to New Orleans.

Columbus: 769,332
This was a 7.8% improvement over 2000, or a gain of about 56,000. The rate of increase has accelerated each year since 2004.

Cincinnati: 333,012
This was a 0.5% increase from 2000, or a gain of about 1,700. However, there has been a slight decline each year since 2007.

So based on all of this, it seems like Columbus is the only city of the 3 that still has strong growth within its borders and that the other two merely have growth in its suburbs. As history has proven again and again, this is a recipe for disaster for the city itself in relation to urban decline. You need a strong central core, not just strong burbs.
I assumed you were using Cleveland's metro population that's closer to 2.7 million, not 2.2 million. Cleveland has so many different figures!
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,496,767 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
I assumed you were using Cleveland's metro population that's closer to 2.7 million, not 2.2 million. Cleveland has so many different figures!
I was using the figures provided on the Census Bureau website, as I figured they would be the most accurate. That's the number it gave. Where did you get 2.7 million from?
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 6,000,107 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by czb2004 View Post
As I said earlier, I was just using Columbus as an example of how the city that I live in relates to Chicago. I'm sure you can find a thread on the Ohio forum where you can argue which city in Ohio you like the best.



?
That comment was not directed to you, so the need for the question mark is pointless. Did I quote you? You were fine, you stayed on topic. I think Columbus and Indy don't really look to Chicago of how exactly to be. They are the "newer" cities of the Midwest, and they are making their own identities.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
3,844 posts, read 8,035,372 times
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In terms of Development, Cleveland hangs with Chicago the closest compared to the rest of the Midwest, (but i could be wrong?) i know Cincy just completed their tallest ever. This past weekend, I was in Chicago and was blown away with the amount of construction happening there. Cleveland is having a HUGE building boom of its own.

Here is my attempt at tracking Cleveland Cleveland construction:


CLEVELAND, OH:

***BREAKING GROUND FEB 2011***
Cleveland Aquarium Phase I (Flats/Downtown) BREAKING GROUND FEB 2 - $33 million Money secured, work to start next week on Flats aquarium | cleveland.com
Museum of Contemporary Art – MOCA (University Circle) -- $32 million MOCA Cleveland board approves building new home in University Circle's Uptown development | cleveland.com

Under Construction:
Cleveland Convention Center and Medical Mart (Downtown) -- $465 million http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2011/01/medical_mart_construction_starts_downtown.html
Uptown Phase I -- Apartments and Retail (University Circle) -- $44.5 million
Developer MRN Ltd. to break ground Monday on Uptown project in University Circle | cleveland.com
Flats East Bank 21-story building Phase I (Downtown/Flats) -- $270 million http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...ct_closes.html
Flats Cleveland 8-story Aloft Hotel (Downtown/Flats) -- $48 million Cleveland's Flats East Bank hotel will carry the Aloft brand | cleveland.com
VA Medical Center Expansion (University Circle) -- $526 million
Secretary of veterans affairs extols expansion of Cleveland VA medical center: Crain's Cleveland Business
Cleveland Museum of Art Expansion and Renovation (University Circle) -- $258 million Taking a hardhat tour of the Cleveland Museum of Art's expansion project - Cleveland Entertainment Top Story from The Plain Dealer - Cleveland.com
University Hospitals Seidman Cancer Center (University Circle) -- $258 million
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/i...als_cance.html
University Hospitals Ahuja Medical Center (Chagrin Highlands) -- $230 million
University Hospitals Ahuja Medical Center
Cleveland Clinic Reference Laboratory (University Circle) -- $75 million Cleveland Clinic breaks ground for $75M reference laboratory « MedCity News
Tudor Arms (Circa 1931) Restoration into Double Tree Hotel (University Circle) -- $22 million Tudor Arms renovation is bringing a highly visible piece of old Cleveland back to life | cleveland.com
Schofield Building (Circa 1902) restoration into Kimpton Hotel and Apts (Downtown) -- $40 million Four Northeast Ohio projects, including new downtown Cleveland hotel, win state tax credits for historic preservation | cleveland.com
East Ohio Gas Company (Circa 1916) restoration into Law Offices (Downtown) -- $30 million Calfee, Halter & Griswold to make former WKYC Building its home: Crain's Cleveland Business
Rivergate Park Rowing Marina (Downtown/Flats) -- $10-$13 million
Creating Rivergate Park: Cleveland Rowing Foundation buys site on Cuyahoga River | cleveland.com
Circle 118 University Circle Townhomes (University Circle) -- $8 million Circle 118 townhouses by WXZ Development add life to University Circle in Cleveland | cleveland.com
27 Coltman Little Italy Townhomes (University Circle) -- $11 million
Luxury townhouses in Cleveland's Little Italy are selling, but court fight looms | cleveland.com
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo Elephant Crossing -- $25 million African Elephant Crossing | Opening in Spring 2011
Hanna Broadway Theater Renovations (Circa 1921) (Downtown)-- $20 million
Hanna Theater at Cleveland's Playhouse Square
Allen Broadway Theater Renovations and Expansions (Circa 1921) (Downtown) -- $30 million
Work begins on renovations to Allen Theatre at PlayhouseSquare | cleveland.com
Tyler Village ongoing renovations (circa 1890-1930)(Asiatown) Tyler Village - History and Future of this Unique Office Space
Battery Park waterfront residental (Detroit-Shoreway/westside) -- $100 million Vintage Development Group, LLC - BATTERY PARK
Perk Park Renovations (Downtown) -- $1.2 million http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/in...provement.html
Anthony J. Celebrezze 32-story Federal Building Renovations (Downtown) -- $121 million Federal building on East Ninth Street getting $121 million stimulus makeover | Metro - cleveland.com - cleveland.com
Cleveland State University "College Town" (Downtown) -- $14 million so far Cleveland City Planning Commission
Cleveland Insitute of Art Expansion (University Circle) -- $50 million Cleveland Institute of Art will break ground in May on Uptown expansion | cleveland.com
Pierre's Ice Cream Factory Expansion (Midtown) -- $8 million Pierre's Ice Cream starts factory expansion this week | cleveland.com
American Sugar Factory Expansion (Midtown) -- $8 million American Sugar expansion plan would nearly double Cleveland plant's size | cleveland.com
Cleveland State University Euclid Commons Dorms Phase II (Downtown) -- $65 million (total for both phases) http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us...tail.php?ID=29
1030 Euclid Ave, Truman Building renovations into residental (Downtown) Investors plan Schofield building rehab; $52M downtown project, which includes offices and a hotel, hinges on securing historic tax credits | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
629 Euclid Ave renovations for Rosetta (Downtown) -- $5 million Digital agency Rosetta plans to bring nearly 400 jobs to new downtown Cleveland offices | cleveland.com
6700 Euclid Ave, Midtown Tech Park construction (Midtown) -- $21 million Properties For Sale - Investment Property, 6700 Euclid Ave., Cleveland, OH
7515 Euclid Ave, Emerald Alliance V construction (Midtown) -- $25 million CHN News - CHN Wins State Funding for 3 Affordable Housing Projects
E. 55th Rapid train Station (Midtown) -- $10 million E 55 Rapid Station | Major Projects | Planning & Development | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority
Brookpark Rd Rapid train Station (near Airport) -- $1.2 million
Stimulus money will help redesign the Brookpark Road RTA rapid station | cleveland.com
Hawken High School renovations and extension campus (University Circle) -- $6.6 million Hawken School to open new learning center in University Circle | cleveland.com
E.14th/Playhouse Square streetscape renovations (Downtown) -- $3 million http://www.playhousesquare.org/defau...etail&objId=62
Cleveland Bicycle Station (Downtown) -- $1 million Art will brighten Cleveland's bike station | GreenCityBlueLake


Planning Stages:
Cleveland Casino Phase I Restoration of Higbee Building (Circa 1931) (Downtown) -- $50 million Cleveland casino to open in two phases, in connected buildings | cleveland.com
Cleveland Casino Phase II Construction (Downtown/Flats) -- $600 million Dan Gilbert, Forest City reach deal on land for Cleveland casino | cleveland.com
University Circle Hotel (University Circle) -- $27 million http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...el_will_b.html
Innerbelt Bridge (Downtown) -- $287 million Clevelanders help ODOT, bridge designers polish details for the new Inner Belt Bridge | cleveland.com
Great Lakes Brewery Expansion (Ohio City) -- $6 million Growth on tap at Great Lakes Brewing Co. - Cleveland Business News - Northeast Ohio and Cleveland - Crain's Cleveland Business
Miceli Dairy Products Expansion (Buckeye Rd/Midtown) -- $20 million
Miceli Dairy Products describes plan for expansion in Cleveland | cleveland.com
1010 Euclid Ave, Security Federal Building into offices (Downtown)
Investors plan Schofield building rehab; $52M downtown project, which includes offices and a hotel, hinges on securing historic tax credits | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
Cleveland State University Mixed-Use North Campus Apartments (Downtown) -- $50 million http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...ghborhood.html
Ohio City neighborhood improvements -- $1-3 million
Third District Police Station (Midtown) -- $14.5 million Cleveland, developer work out unusual financing for Third District police station project | cleveland.com
University Circle new Rapid train Station (University Circle) -- $10.5 million
University Circle rapid station redesign in the works | cleveland.com
Temple-Tifereth Israel Renovations into CWRU Performing Arts Center (University Circle)-- $25.6 million Maltz Family Foundation donates $12 million to CWRU to let school, synagogue share Temple-Tifereth Israel | cleveland.com
Uptown/MOCA Plaza (University Circle) -- $1 million Uptown plaza design wins conceptual approval from Euclid Corridor Design Review Committee | cleveland.com
Abington Arms Apartments "Green Retrofit" (University Circle)-- $2.6 million HUDNo.2010-10-05/U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
Cozad-Bates “Underground Railroad” House Restoration (circa 1853) (University Circle) -- $350K http://universitycircle.org/annual2010/2010-UCI-AR.pdf
Hazel Drive Luxury Apartments (University Circle) -- $10.5 million http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...anned_for.html

Recently Completed:
Cleveland Clinic Heart Center (University Circle) -- $500 million COMPLETED 2008
Euclid Corridor Bus-Rapid Transit Line connecting Downtown to University Circle -- $197 million COMPLETED 2008 Cleveland's Euclid corridor project has paved the way to economic development | cleveland.com
Avenue District 10-story condo building (Downtown) -- $150 million COMPLETED 2009
668 Euclid Apartment Renovations (circa 1913) (Downtown) -- $70 million -- COMPLETED 2010
668 Euclid Revitalizes Central Downtown Business District
Terminal Tower Renovations (Circa 1931) (Downtown) -- $40 million COMPLETED 2009 From the top: Progress visible on Terminal Tower restoration | cleveland.com
Cleveland State University Euclid Commons Dorms Phase I (Downtown) -- $65 million (total for both phases) -- COMPLETED 2010 http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us...tail.php?ID=29
Cleveland State University Student Center (Downtown) -- $44 million -- COMPLETED 2010 Cleveland State University's new student center provides a place to meet, eat and greet | cleveland.com
Cleveland State University Education Building -- $36 million -- COMPLETED 2010 College of Education & Human Services Building - Cleveland State University
Stonebridge Plaza 12-Story Condo Tower (Downtown/Flats) -- COMPLETED 2008
Park Lane Villa Apartments Renovations (circa 1920) (University Circle) -- $21 million COMPLETED 2008
Tremont Place Lofts Renovations (circa 1930s) (Tremont near Downtown) -- $15 million COMPLETED 2009
Asiatown Center creation and renovation (circa 1922) (Asiatown) COMPLETED 2010 -- $2-3 million Asian Town Center | Cleveland, Ohio | Home
Case Western Reserve Wind Turbine (University Circle) -- $6 million COMPLETED 2010 CWRU plans to harness wind power with turbines - News
Stephanie Tubbs Jones Transportation Center (Downtown) -- $9.6 million COMPLETED 2010 Stephanie Tubbs Jones Transit Center | Major Projects | Planning & Development | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority
John Hay High School (circa 1929) restorations (University Circle) -- $37 million COMPLETED 2007 John Hay Campus schools live up to expectations, get excellent' rating from state - Cleveland.com
Montessori High School renovations and creation (University Circle) -- $2.6 million COMPLETED 2008 New high school in University Circle combines Montessori education with the International Baccalaureate program | cleveland.com
Cleveland Hearing and Speech Center (University Circle) -- $16 million COMPLETED 2009 http://blog.cleveland.com/architectu..._designed.html
Cleveland Hopkins Airport AIRMALL -- $8.4 million COMPLETED 2010 http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010...and_hopki.html
Tri-C Center for Creative Arts (Downtown) -- $27 million COMPLETED 2010 Tri-C's Center for Creative Arts among seven facilities planned by the college | cleveland.com
Park Building renovations (circa 1904) into Condos (Downtown) -- $9 million COMPELTED 2009 http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2...put_homeo.html
Soldiers and Sailors Monument restoration (circa 1894) (Downtown) -- $2 million COMPLETED 2010 http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010..._monument.html
Captial Theater Renovation (Gordon Square) -- $7 million COMPLETED 2009 http://www.cleveland.com/moviebuff/i...l_theatre.html
Gordon Square renovation projects -- $30 million COMPLETED 2010 http://www.marketwire.com/press-rele...nt-1167247.htm


Proposed:
21-Story Public Square Tower (Jacob's and Hines) -- $180 million http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/jacobs_hines_to_build_21story.html
5-Story Technology Center (University Circle) -- $98.6 million Developer John Ferchill plans University Circle tech center: Crain's Cleveland Business
Cleveland Skatepark (Downtown/Flats) -- $500K A new Cleveland Skatepark? - ESPN
Cleveland Aquarium Phase II (Downtown/Flats) -- $40 million Money secured, work to start next week on Flats aquarium | cleveland.com
Case Western Reserve Field House (University Circle) -- $6 million Case Western Reserve University | News Center
Case Western Reserve Student Center (University Circle) -- $50 million $20 million gift to Case Western Reserve University will kick-start plans for new student center | cleveland.com
Wind Turbines on Lake Erie -- $100 million
Developers named to build Lake Erie wind turbines - BusinessWeek
North Coast Transportation Center (Downtown) -- $50 million Cleveland plans intermodal transportation center to link key landmarks | cleveland.com
Cleveland Athletic Club renovations (circa 1910) -- $43 million Cleveland Athletic Club building owner settles legal dispute, but renovation plans still need financing | cleveland.com
Warner and Swasey Building renovation (circa 1880)(Midtown) Cleveland's abandoned Warner & Swasey complex could become a tech center | cleveland.com
Maingate Market Place (E. 55th and Woodland) -- $30 million Maingate Market Place plan could bring renewal to East 55th Street and Woodland Avenue | cleveland.com
Abandoned Coast Guard Station Restoration (Downtown/Whiskey Island) -- $5 million-$9.2 million Old Coast Guard station languishes; Some cleanup, repairs done, but progress scant on plans for new use | Metro - cleveland.com - cleveland.com
Slavic Village Velodrome (Slavic Village) -- $6.5 million Group moves closer to creating cycling velodrome in Cleveland's Slavic Village - Cleveland Business News - Northeast Ohio and Cleveland - Crain's Cleveland Business
Cleveland School of the Arts -- $30 million Cleveland school district to build new John Marshall High School | cleveland.com
Cleveland Natural History Museum Expansion (University Circle) -- $30-50 million Evalyn Gates takes helm at Cleveland Museum of Natural History as expansion plans gel | cleveland.com
Lot 45 (University Circle) -- $60 million University Circle Inc. unveils plans for Lot 45, a key element of the Uptown development | cleveland.com
Uptown Phase II (Ford and Euclid) (University Circle)
Uptown Hotel TBA (University Circle)
Cleveland State University Global Sustainable Center
Cleveland State University Mather Mansion Boutique Hotel
Cleveland State University 1836 Euclid Building
Cleveland State University Cowell & Hubbard Building and Dodge Building Renovations
E.119th three-story Office Building (University Circle) Developers settle dispute over land in Cleveland's Little Italy | cleveland.com
Case Western Reserve West Quad -- $50 million Case Western Reserve Scales Back West Quad Project / WCPN.org
Opportunity Corridor (eastside/University Circle) -- $300 million
Cleveland Urban Core Projects - Opportunity Corridor
Flats East Bank Phase II
Pedestrian Bridges (Downtown/University Circle) http://blog.cleveland.com/architectu...el_rosale.html
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
3,844 posts, read 8,035,372 times
Reputation: 1607
Also, I was thinking about where Cleveland is better than Chicago, and I could only think of a few things:

- Little Italy neighborhood (I've heard their are better ones in the suburbs of Chicago, but I only saw the one by Univ of Illinois at Chicago)
- Indoor Food Market -- Cleveland's Historical Westside Market Cleveland's Westside Market named best in America by Food Network
- Cleveland's Theater District (Second largest outside of NYC)
- Classical Orchestra's (TIED -- both are a part of the BIG FIVE in America)
- Major Hostpitals -- Cleveland Clinic and Rainbow Babies @ University Hospitals

Other than that, Chicago wins in every other category ...including Sports
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,321,280 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I was using the figures provided on the Census Bureau website, as I figured they would be the most accurate. That's the number it gave. Where did you get 2.7 million from?
I Googled it and the first site that sourced a number that high was Wikepedia (I know, not official) at 2.9 million -- this is for the CSA though, so maybe that's the difference. That includes Akron and Elyria.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,321,280 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by costello_musicman View Post
Also, I was thinking about where Cleveland is better than Chicago, and I could only think of a few things:

- Little Italy neighborhood (I've heard their are better ones in the suburbs of Chicago, but I only saw the one by Univ of Illinois at Chicago)
- Indoor Food Market -- Cleveland's Historical Westside Market Cleveland's Westside Market named best in America by Food Network
- Cleveland's Theater District (Second largest outside of NYC)
- Classical Orchestra's (TIED -- both are a part of the BIG FIVE in America)
- Major Hostpitals -- Cleveland Clinic and Rainbow Babies @ University Hospitals

Other than that, Chicago wins in every other category ...including Sports
This cannot be accurate.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,495 posts, read 10,806,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costello_musicman View Post
- Little Italy neighborhood (I've heard their are better ones in the suburbs of Chicago, but I only saw the one by Univ of Illinois at Chicago)
There's a smaller "Little Italy" south of Cermak before you get to Western. Many small Italian eateries, although the area around them has become Latino.
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