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Old 01-19-2010, 06:47 AM
j33
 
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^^^
As a Chicagoan, that has never been my experience or mindset. However, if it makes you feel better to paint the entire city with that broad of a brush and dismiss it, and its residents, in its entirety as a mess, then so be it, I have no interest in trying to convince someone who deals so broadly in stereotypes of anything. That would be a fools errand.

The reality is that for you Chicago is a nice place to visit, but you don't want to live there, which is fine and you should have to justify that to nobody, I don't see why you'd bother; there are plenty of lovely places on this planet that I would like to visit, but not live.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
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Originally Posted by j33 View Post
^^^
As a Chicagoan, that has never been my experience or mindset. However, if it makes you feel better to paint the entire city with that broad of a brush and dismiss it, and its residents, in its entirety as a mess, then so be it, I have no interest in trying to convince someone who deals so broadly in stereotypes of anything. That would be a fools errand.

The reality is that for you Chicago is a nice place to visit, but you don't want to live there, which is fine and you should have to justify that to nobody, I don't see why you'd bother; there are plenty of lovely places on this planet that I would like to visit, but not live.
I certainly do not want to live in Chicago, and I have never put down people who do live in Chicago.

The problem is that the feeling is not mutual.

Do a quick search for a poster called ChiTownWarrior. See what he has to say to the folks of Indiana. While he may be an extreme case, the things he is saying are not uncommon to hear from Chicagoans. Sure, you don't notice it because you are a Chicagoan. But that sort of thing happens alot.

That is all I am really saying, as far as animosity; I certainly do not harbor any, unless I am dealing with folks like ChiTownWarrior.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by j33 View Post
^^^
As a Chicagoan, that has never been my experience or mindset. However, if it makes you feel better to paint the entire city with that broad of a brush and dismiss it, and its residents, in its entirety as a mess, then so be it.

It's not meant to paint an entire city, but rather explain the relationship of many Chicagoans with their midwestern neighbors. Isn't that the topic? Why do you think there is such tension between Chicago and the rest of the midwest? Chicago accomplishes this polarization not by being more "superior" (that's a joke because this is America and virtually anyone and their uncle could live in Chicago if they put forth some moderate effort--look how many low to middle income live there on the someone elses dime)

Looking back through the posts here, you see many examples where Chicagoans claim that they do not give other places in the midwest a second thought. They really do spend a lot of time minimizing and stereotyping other places, not just in the midwest either.
We know that in reality, they do spend alot of time thinking about and visiting other places in the midwest. Chicagoans spend an inordinate amount of time galavanting around the midwest and many are moving further and further away from CHicago.

So yes, there are probably a few snoots out there who probably feel like they are superior in some way because they feel their city of residence offers more culture, amenities, higher salaries, ....whatever. But the vast majority of Chicagoans are not able to rub two nickels together, and live off their credit card or mommy's bank account. That does not impress others around the midwest. We realize not all people are that way. But there are hordes of these losers in any big city. It's a microcosm of America. Their quality of life is not necessariy better. It's an opinion. Chicago does not need to be lived in every single day to enjoy it. People figured this out long ago and started moving away because the people there keep voting in the same corrupt aholes over and over.

I make no bones about my dislike for Chicago. But just becasue you dislike a place does not mean you are jealous or inferior. I dislike crowded cafeterias with mediocre food too. Doesn't mean I have an inferiority complex about them.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
I certainly do not want to live in Chicago, and I have never put down people who do live in Chicago.

The problem is that the feeling is not mutual.

Do a quick search for a poster called ChiTownWarrior. See what he has to say to the folks of Indiana. While he may be an extreme case, the things he is saying are not uncommon to hear from Chicagoans. Sure, you don't notice it because you are a Chicagoan. But that sort of thing happens alot.

That is all I am really saying, as far as animosity; I certainly do not harbor any, unless I am dealing with folks like ChiTownWarrior.

Yes very true. It's good to respect the country life and respect the city life. Chicagoans do not do this for the most part. They are some of the worst culprits of stereotyping the suburbs, country, and other places that are not as "cosmopolitan" then they wonder why there is such backlash. You would think that the city folks would be more civil, but I guess that is a stereotype too, because they are not.

Do a quick search for just about any poster from Chicago. Sift through their posts. They are just as bad at their backhanded compliments and putdowns of anyplace that is not "the Great Chicago" City data may not be the best representation of the real world, but it's close from my experience.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:47 AM
j33
 
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I don't find City Data representative of the world, or Chicagoans, New Yorkers, Iowans, etc. at all.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pam21 View Post
Yes very true. It's good to respect the country life and respect the city life. Chicagoans do not do this for the most part. They are some of the worst culprits of stereotyping the suburbs, country, and other places that are not as "cosmopolitan" then they wonder why there is such backlash. You would think that the city folks would be more civil, but I guess that is a stereotype too, because they are not.

Do a quick search for just about any poster from Chicago. Sift through their posts. They are just as bad at their backhanded compliments and putdowns of anyplace that is not "the Great Chicago" City data may not be the best representation of the real world, but it's close from my experience.
Honestly while I agree with things you are saying, based on your past 5 or 6 posts they really could be applied to any city that has a large dominance over the surrounding area. In the post on inferiority/superiority complex and Chicago, it would seem that Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Atlanta, etc. etc. would all probably have huge inferiority complexes with the lesser cities around them - because any and all large cities tend to "look down" on the areas around them. Just like Chicago might tend to do. It's kinda a natural "big brother" type of thing. Honestly while people might make comments, normally they aren't some sort of hatred or really strong feelings. People are just spouting off because they feel they can. It happens EVERYWHERE. I mean in Iowa people in the cities would talk down about rural areas and how they'd never want to live there. People in Chicago blow off the rest of the Midwest. People in Houston blow off rural areas of Louisiana and the region. NYC tends to blow off the "lesser" cities in the region, etc. etc.

Except for good vacation spots, most people don't know a WHOLE lot about their surroundings, and will dismiss them. I was just saying I don't understand how Chicago doing it is some automatic inferiority complex. I don't see firsthand that Chicagoans are threatened by smaller Midwest cities. Trust me, we're too busy complaining about things happening here like corruption and crime to give a lot of thoughts into Cleveland or Kansas City.

I think the "hypersensitivity" comes from the fact that Chicago is a great city, it's a large city, but it's a city with some huge and obvious problems. It's had a rough history, especially the 1960's through early 1990's, and is just trying to expand and be a nice stable place to live with optimism. On this website there are a handful of trolls who spend a creepy amount of time makign dozens of screen names just to spout off hundreds of posts about how Chicago has terrible crime, corruption, the CTA is underfunded, and omg, it gets really cold in the winter. Nothing positive - ever. Just the same 14 comments in every thread they can find. It's like having your daughter get arrested for drug use, and every time you see a neighbor for the next 3 years they start in with the "Oh my god! I can't believe your daughter got arrested! That's so embarassing! Why do you think she did it??".

In the end it's like - OK - I HEAR YOU. Need we have the repeating like a broken record 100 times in a row? What's the point, except to kill any rational discussion. I'm not being hypersensitive, I'm not having a complex, I'm just stating that it's kinda silly. Not that you personally are doing it, but all this website is a ton of people commenting about their opionions on subjects for the most part. You state your opinion and move on. The obsession confuses me by some on here (not particularly you). People make comments how Chicagoans will defend themselves and have this huge civic ego - but I think the biggest issue is why these other people hundreds or thousands of miles away have this massive complex with Chicago. At least the people defending have a vested interest. I mean I'm not going to spend 80% of my free time randomly hating all over Cincinnati or something....

Last edited by Chicago60614; 01-19-2010 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:34 AM
 
87 posts, read 61,602 times
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Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Honestly while I agree with things you are saying, based on your past 5 or 6 posts they really could be applied to any city that has a large dominance over the surrounding area. In the post on inferiority/superiority complex and Chicago, it would seem that Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Atlanta, etc. etc. would all probably have huge inferiority complexes with the lesser cities around them - because any and all large cities tend to "look down" on the areas around them. Just like Chicago might tend to do. It's kinda a natural "big brother" type of thing. Honestly while people might make comments, normally they aren't some sort of hatred or really strong feelings. People are just spouting off because they feel they can. It happens EVERYWHERE. I mean in Iowa people in the cities would talk down about rural areas and how they'd never want to live there. People in Chicago blow off the rest of the Midwest. People in Houston blow off rural areas of Louisiana and the region. NYC tends to blow off the "lesser" cities in the region, etc. etc.

Except for good vacation spots, most people don't know a WHOLE lot about their surroundings, and will dismiss them. I was just saying I don't understand how Chicago doing it is some automatic inferiority complex. I don't see firsthand that Chicagoans are threatened by smaller Midwest cities. Trust me, we're too busy complaining about things happening here like corruption and crime to give a lot of thoughts into Cleveland or Kansas City.

I think the "hypersensitivity" comes from the fact that Chicago is a great city, it's a large city, but it's a city with some huge and obvious problems. It's had a rough history, especially the 1960's through early 1990's, and is just trying to expand and be a nice stable place to live with optimism. On this website there are a handful of trolls who spend a creepy amount of time makign dozens of screen names just to spout off hundreds of posts about how Chicago has terrible crime, corruption, the CTA is underfunded, and omg, it gets really cold in the winter. Nothing positive - ever. Just the same 14 comments in every thread they can find. It's like having your daughter get arrested for drug use, and every time you see a neighbor for the next 3 years they start in with the "Oh my god! I can't believe your daughter got arrested! That's so embarassing! Why do you think she did it??".

In the end it's like - OK - I HEAR YOU. Need we have the repeating like a broken record 100 times in a row? What's the point, except to kill any rational discussion. I'm not being hypersensitive, I'm not having a complex, I'm just stating that it's kinda silly. Not that you personally are doing it, but all this website is a ton of people commenting about their opionions on subjects for the most part. You state your opinion and move on. The obsession confuses me by some on here (not particularly you). People make comments how Chicagoans will defend themselves and have this huge civic ego - but I think the biggest issue is why these other people hundreds or thousands of miles away have this massive complex with Chicago. At least the people defending have a vested interest. I mean I'm not going to spend 80% of my free time randomly hating all over Cincinnati or something....

I see where you are coming from, but again, you personally may not spend an inordinate amount of time minimizing or stereotyping other cities like Cincinnati, Detroit, Indy, etc. or small towns but there are so, so many who will do just that, in the real world and on C-D. It's like a freaking sport to some of these empty souls. And guess what there address usually is? Chicago or its suburbs. Places like New York and Dallas do it too.

Again, not lumping all Chicagoans together, but there just seems to be this inability on many Chicagoans part to talk about or enjoy other places without irreverently comparing them to Chicago in some negative way, as if Chicago is some gold standard for the midwest or the country. For millions of people it is not since they live elswhere and live perfectly happy and fullfilled lives. But most of them still accept Chicago anyway and realize its cultural value. I know, because I hate Chicago after living there and it's actually hard to find another person in the smaller towns and cities who shares that hatred. Most from the smaller towns could really care less and view Chicago as a big mess that they would visit anytime, but would never live in due to the hassles and corrupt govt. That's a personal preference that many Chicagoans have a problem with for some reason.
On the other hand, you cannot throw a rock in the midwest without hitting a person from Chicago who is often running off at the mouth about how much better the think they are for being from Chicago, and we are supposed to all bow in awe. What's funny is that it tends to be suburban Chicagoans more. What's the deal with that?

I guess maybe you have to live on the other side for a while to see the Chicagoan inferiority complex in action. I moved from Chicago over 10 years ago now. I use to be the first guy to deny this stuff existed. It's natural because people defend their home city. Then you see how these ultra-urban people act when they travel to smaller places or talk on these forums or are away at school.

You have to understand the concept of projecting. This is major component of inferiority complexes and is not present in a superiority complex. **** rolls downhill. The flack that Chicago has gotten throughout its history, the fat kid at recess jokes, the Superfan fat guy image, the ratta tat tat Al Capone image that robs Chicago's much deserved thunder, the fact that Chicago itself is made up of so many former small towners who glommed onto the big city life for esteem boosting... these all feed into Chicagoans looking down their nose at the supposed "podunk" cities of America, when in fact Chicago is looked down on by other major cites itself.

One thing I must strongly disagree with you on. People in the smaller towns generally do not look down on people from other smaller places. Not to the same degree at all that big city folks pull that garbage. There is no reason for them to do that. For example Whitewater WI isn't looking down their nose at some unincorporated town nearby. Green Bay isn't looking down at Appleton. Those people are too busy working the farms and factories and having a family life. Big cities are places where life is broken up into games of who can stack and spend the most money and own crap that eventually owns you. But the small towners still respect that many people enjoy that lifestyle. It's just not for them. Hard to find that same live and let live attitude among their counterparts in the big city. The supposed "civil" or less narrowminded big city.

None of this is meant in any way to attack Chicago, but to show the point of view of someone who has lived on both sides of this citymouse/countrymouse thing for a while.

Last edited by pam21; 01-19-2010 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:41 AM
 
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^ but you have to respect the irony of your statements here. You're making lots of references and comments about Chicagoans treating others in the Midwest as second rate, but almost all of your posts since joining have basically been bashing the crap out of everyone who likes or lives in Chicago for whatever their personal reason. A lot of your comments and posts have been hostile enough to the city that it is pretty natural for someone to try and defend themselves.

Especially going into the Chicago forum and coming across like you're belittling anyone who would actually want to live there.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
^ but you have to respect the irony of your statements here. You're making lots of references and comments about Chicagoans treating others in the Midwest as second rate, but almost all of your posts since joining have basically been bashing the crap out of everyone who likes or lives in Chicago for whatever their personal reason. A lot of your comments and posts have been hostile enough to the city that it is pretty natural for someone to try and defend themselves.

Especially going into the Chicago forum and coming across like you're belittling anyone who would actually want to live there.

Wha?
Obviously I am not the midwest. I am one person. There is no irony in the fact that I hate Chicago. Most people in the midwest really enjoy Chicago...to visit. That's just the truth.
But Chicago, for whatever reason (mental baggage? inferiority projection?) feels the need to **** on the rest of the midwest whenever they get the chance. Not exactly the sign of a world class culture. That's also another ugly truth, and it's hard for Chicagoans to admit that. I will be the first to admit that I rip Chicago every chance I get. Chicago did me wrong in numerous ways. Doesnt mean I cannot see what happens on both sides of the problem objectively.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:41 PM
j33
 
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Originally Posted by pam21 View Post
Wha?
Obviously I am not the midwest. I am one person. There is no irony in the fact that I hate Chicago. Most people in the midwest really enjoy Chicago...to visit. That's just the truth.
But Chicago [the entire city, not just some chicagoans], for whatever reason (mental baggage? inferiority projection?) feels the need to **** on the rest of the midwest whenever they get the chance. Not exactly the sign of a world class culture. That's also another ugly truth, and it's hard for Chicagoans [again, all of us] to admit that. I will be the first to admit that I rip Chicago every chance I get. Chicago [yep, we all got together, all of us] did me wrong in numerous ways. Doesnt mean I cannot see what happens on both sides of the problem objectively.
There you go again, painting the entire city in a negative light because you have a few run-ins with some jerks from said city.

I had some rather negative experiences in Indianapolis, but you'll never see me decrying the entire city the way you do Chicago. I don't get it. Odd.
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