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Old 01-20-2010, 11:39 AM
 
87 posts, read 61,565 times
Reputation: 29

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colts View Post
Chicago is one of those cities that's cool to visit, but sucks to live in. Kind of like New Orleans or Miami. (I guess Fort Wayne would be the opposite)

While I do not agree that it sucks to live in for everyone, I do find this^^ to be the much more common and realistic point of view...its the typical perspective that most midwesterners (who are non Chicagoans) have about Chicago.
Conversley, I think most Chicagoans could really care less about what happens in other parts of the midwest, and they tend to put their neighbors down quite a bit for whatever reasons, as if Chicagoans are not ultimately part of flyover country themselves. That is the reason Chicago has so many bashers. Or is it one basher with several screen names?

It's funny and kind of ironic. Many Chicagoans hate New Yorkers for similar reasons: that they are dismissive and sometimes even rude about Chicago, trying to minimize it.
I find that most midwesterners are not dismissive of Chicago at all. Where do you think that the great majority of Chicago visitors and windy citizens are from????? Somewhere in the midwest! Chicago is too "busy" to notice that I guess, because they are too "busy" fancying themselves as some diverse world melting pot, ala New York. While Chicago has its diversity, Chicago also has nothing on New York as far as true diversity or integration (Chicago is segregated to extremes) Chicago is also more crime ridden than New York, less vibrant, less world class, more clannish, among other things. This is where I think the Chicago inferiority/superiority complex stems from. It's a shame, because Chicago has some really great things going for it, but the experience is tainted by the people and the ultra-corrupt nickel and dime government they elect.

Millions of midwesterners realize Chicago is congested, gentrified, polluted, statistically more stressful. It does not need to be lived in to be enjoyed for its culture on a semi-regular basis. That is one reason why people keep moving to the suburbs and adding to Chicago's suburb sprawl.
Another major reason is a Chicagoans typical attitude as noted above. Like we mentioned before, if you were locked in a cell with a guy who would not shut up about how "awesome" he is, after a couple hours only one of you would leave the room. And it would not be him.

Last edited by pam21; 01-20-2010 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:29 PM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,363,867 times
Reputation: 10919
Damn Pam.......I'm assuming you don't even live in Chicago anymore, right?

Take a pill and relax, before you pop some blood vessels. You've made your point over and over, and it's still just your opinion on Chicago. People may or may night share your views. That's about as much as you're ever going to get out of this.

I feel like all this has turned into is the equivilent of two sports teams griping on each other with random bashes and come-backs.

Moderator cut: see comment

Last edited by Bo; 01-20-2010 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: Per TOS, can't discuss moderator action in a post.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:44 PM
 
87 posts, read 61,565 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Damn Pam.......I'm assuming you don't even live in Chicago anymore, right?

Take a pill and relax, before you pop some blood vessels. You've made your point over and over, and it's still just your opinion on Chicago. People may or may night share your views. That's about as much as you're ever going to get out of this.

I feel like all this has turned into is the equivilent of two sports teams griping on each other with random bashes and come-backs.
Moderator cut: see comment

No, I do not live in that black hole anymore thank GOD. But many of my friends/relatives still do. According to them, it's actually gotten worse since I left (probably just the economy) They have had it up to here with the city as well and are looking to "wave bye bye to Chicago for good" as one guy put it. Every single one of them is moving away from the city. Not a surprise.

Now then, if my posts are something that you cannot stomach, well ,perhaps you should cease reading them. Not everyone is required to be a booster here. I do not have 2,000 plus posts singing the praises of Chicago for a reason. So you tell me. Who is stating thier biased views over and over?????

With all due respect to your condescending attitude , it's not just my opinion alone about Chicago's relationship with its region. There were several posters on this thread who posted similar thoughts, and if you get out of your insular bubble, I'm sure you would find this view to be fairly accurate....even...REAL *gasp*
It's also a similar opinion held by most of the world in regards to Chicago, don't you think? The references to Chicago's poor attitude and dysfunction can be found in everything from famous quotes to famous works of literature. It just took me personally way to long to find out what a sham the city itself really is.

And now, I will make sure that people hear both sides of the Chicago story so they can judge for themselves before commiting to a" facade of skyscrapers facing a lake and behind the facade, every type of dubiousness" as one famous quote goes about Chicago.

And what point are you trying to make over and over ? You seem obsessed with my posts. Is it because most of my posts don't cast Chicago is a heavenly glow? hmmm Chicago/heavenly glow. Don't seem right together. You do not need to agree with me on everything. But you are not a city data security guard. If I want to gripe about how a city effed me over for 20 plus years, I am entitled to that. And people who are considering moving to Chicago are entitled to hear the entire truth, not some snot nosed/frat kid loser's fairy tale version of the truth as most of the posters on city data come across.

Thank you, I will be here all week, try the veal!

Last edited by Bo; 01-20-2010 at 06:44 PM.. Reason: updated quote to match original
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
71 posts, read 166,366 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMathYou View Post
Chicago is by far the biggest and most "powerful" city in the Midwest. However, the other major cities in it's region have their stake as well.

My question is, how does Chicago, the government, the citizens, or the city as a whole, relate to it's Midwestern relatives? As a big brother, a father, a fun uncle, or a loud mouthed Mudder-in-law who doesn't give them no respect?

And elaborate on your answer, by explaining why and how Chicago acts this way.
I don't see a strong relationship between Chicago and the rest of the Midwest. But I think that is pretty typical of any big city in other regions. I certainly don't see any governmental relationships. The whole high-speed rail thing is one of the first collaboration I've heard of between different governments since moving here.

Chicago is obviously the biggest draw in the region of young talent. It seems to me if you grow up in the midwest Chicago is a great place to start your career. Of course there are a lot of jobs here, but if the rest of your family is still elsewhere in the midwest it is really easy to get back home. I'm not from the midwest, but when I moved here I kinda figured it was the norm for midwesterners to go to a Big Ten school, graduate, and move to Chicago.

One thing I have noticed is a lack of talent exchange between Chicago and the rest of the Midwest. For example say a popular Chicago chef decides to open a new restaurants outside the area. They don't pick Minneapolis/St. Paul, or St. Louis. They would go to the east or west coast.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,835 posts, read 19,562,238 times
Reputation: 4430
Quote:
One thing I have noticed is a lack of talent exchange between Chicago and the rest of the Midwest. For example say a popular Chicago chef decides to open a new restaurants outside the area. They don't pick Minneapolis/St. Paul, or St. Louis. They would go to the east or west coast.
Funny you pick the "chef" comparison. Well I can tell you this is not the case. Take Milwaukee for instance while having a great restaurant scene and having some of the best chefs in the US. You have Sanford Restuarnt which has been named in the past as the best restaurant in the midwest. Chef Sandy D'Amato. A chef that could easily go anywhere but chose to stay in Milwaukee. [SIZE=2]D’Amato is a former winner of the Perrier JouŽt Best Chef: Midwest award from the James Beard Foundation, and who can forget he was one of 12 chefs in the nation to be personally chosen by Julia Child to cook for her 80th birthday celebration.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]http://www.sanfordrestaurant.com/
[/SIZE]

Now take Karl Kopp who runs Kopps custard in Milwaukee, AZ88 in PHX and a swanky well know restaurant in Lower Manhattan called Bar 89 and Elsa's in downtown Milwaukee. Karl Kopp is well regarded all over the US as a fine restaurateur.

Then Milwaukee has Paul Bartolotta who runs many Italian restaurants in Milwaukee and a restaurant in the Wynn Las Vegas called Bartolotta Ristorante di Mare and was also on TV for "Battle of the Iron Chefs".

Las Vegas Hotels - Wynn Las Vegas

Paul Bartolotta's Italian Empire - ABC News

Milwaukee also has Chef Marc Bianchini who born and raised in New York City and was a chef in Italy and two well know restaurants in NYC La Bernardin, San Domenico.then moved to Milwaukee to open up several restaurants here in the city. Restaurants that are often visited by celebrities and well know businessmen and politicians alike.

OnMilwaukee.com Dining: Milwaukee Talks: Chef Marc Bianchini

Milwaukee also has had many chefs from Chicago relocate here and open up restaurants here as well as they managing their Chicago restaurants . I could go on forever but I think I proved my point.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:24 PM
 
2,601 posts, read 4,069,591 times
Reputation: 2275
It's interesting - I don't live in Chicago, and never have, but I have family members who do (also some good friends). My connections seem to live quite well, contrary to what Pam21 espouses. Some of these people are MBA grads from Kellogg (Northwestern) and Booth (U of Chicago), and they are doing extremely well in Chicago. In fact, these two Chicago MBA granting institutions are in the top five in the country - pretty cool, I would say. These people are choosing to stay in Chicago because they have a great life there. (MBAs from these two schools have a lot of options - in Chicago, and pretty much anywhere).

It all depends on your career path, where you can afford to live, the company you keep, places you frequent, etc. I can see if someone doesn't have a lot going on, why they would be down on Chicago. That, however, would be the same in any city.

The constant ripping of Chicago by a couple of posters definitely brings out someone like me, to defend Chicago. I have never bashed any city on this forum, and I don't get the appeal - once you've made your point, why do you need to go on and on (and on). I don't think anyone's opinion changes, and those who love Chicago, still love Chicago. If I was thinking of moving to Chicago, I couldn't take seriously anyone's opinion, who obviously has it out for the city.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
71 posts, read 166,366 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Funny you pick the "chef" comparison. Well I can tell you this is not the case. Take Milwaukee for instance while having a great restaurant scene and having some of the best chefs in the US. You have Sanford Restuarnt which has been named in the past as the best restaurant in the midwest. Chef Sandy D'Amato. A chef that could easily go anywhere but chose to stay in Milwaukee. [SIZE=2]DíAmato is a former winner of the Perrier JouŽt Best Chef: Midwest award from the James Beard Foundation, and who can forget he was one of 12 chefs in the nation to be personally chosen by Julia Child to cook for her 80th birthday celebration.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE][SIZE=2]http://www.sanfordrestaurant.com/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
Now take Karl Kopp who runs Kopps custard in Milwaukee, AZ88 in PHX and a swanky well know restaurant in Lower Manhattan called Bar 89 and Elsa's in downtown Milwaukee. Karl Kopp is well regarded all over the US as a fine restaurateur.

Then Milwaukee has Paul Bartolotta who runs many Italian restaurants in Milwaukee and a restaurant in the Wynn Las Vegas called Bartolotta Ristorante di Mare and was also on TV for "Battle of the Iron Chefs".

Las Vegas Hotels - Wynn Las Vegas

Paul Bartolotta's Italian Empire - ABC News

Milwaukee also has Chef Marc Bianchini who born and raised in New York City and was a chef in Italy and two well know restaurants in NYC La Bernardin, San Domenico.then moved to Milwaukee to open up several restaurants here in the city. Restaurants that are often visited by celebrities and well know businessmen and politicians alike.

OnMilwaukee.com Dining: Milwaukee Talks: Chef Marc Bianchini

Milwaukee also has had many chefs from Chicago relocate here and open up restaurants here as well as they managing their Chicago restaurants . I could go on forever but I think I proved my point.
The chef's you mentioned, did they get there start in Chicago or some other midwest city?

I'm not saying other cities in the midwest have no good restaurants because some Chicago chefs chose coastal cities over other midwest cities.

The point I was trying to make was I would like to see more talent exchanged among midwest cities. You just mention a bunch of Milwaukee chefs that also bypassed the midwest for coastal cities. I'm advocating for keeping talent in the midwest.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:46 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,779,975 times
Reputation: 4427
Originally Posted by Colts
I think it's more of a superiority complex.

Chicagoans seem to enjoy one-upping each other for various reasons, too. Here's a typical conversation:

Person A from Chicago: "Yeah, I went to St. Paul last month and it was so cold!"
Person B from Chicago: "I bet it wasn't as cold as Chicago. Why were you there in the first place?"
Person A: "I had a job interview. In fact, just last week they contacted me and told me I got the job."
Person B: "Uh...why would anyone leave Chicago for St. Paul? There's plenty of jobs here."
Person A: "I just prefer the quality of life in the Twin Cities."
Person B: [head explodes]

Although I disagree with this statement it still is pretty funny.



I don't want to get in the way of this feud. And I am not taking sides. I know the people that are like what pam21 and Colts describe (even though I also ignoring the attitudes of these two as well). They are around, but I just ignore them, and move on. I think its just like what people have been saying, that the simple size, accompanied by a lack of interest in history, may keep people in the dark about other midwestern cities.

Here are some real conversions I've had.

A girl from Michigan moved the Chicago suburbs: "I love Chicago! There is so much culture! I want to go to the south side Irish Parade. Theres nothing like the melting pot of cultures of Michigan."
Buddy of mine: "actually their is a historic Irish neighborhood in Detroit called Corktown"
Michigan girl: Wow really! I never would have thought that.
Me: And, the Detroit suburbs have the largest Arab population in the country.
Michigan girl Wow! Really!?

I remember another person that didn't understand why there would an ethnic group that is more concentrated in a different midwest city. She had to have it explained the auto factories attracted people from everywhere from 1920-1970.

On a separate occasion same girl:

Michigan girl: I went to the auto show at McCormick place this weekend! I love going downtown.
Another friend: We went to Greektown.
Michigan girl: Its so great to be an area with so much stuff to do and so much culture.

She says this at a persons house in Hoffman Estates, a suburb very similar to Auburn Hills Michigan. While Chicago has so much more than Detroit, (she was from a small west Michigan town), she had no idea that at least these two things (Greektown and Auto show) are two things that obviously Detroit has direct comparisons.

Conversation with another friend from Minnesota.

Me: so are there still a lot of Hmong in the Twin Cities?
Friend: yeah, they are there.
female aquaintance: What are Hmong?
Friend: They are a culture that lived in the mountains of southeast Asia that fought on our side in the war. Many of them moved to the twin cities afterwards.
female aquaint: Why did they moved there? (Totally puzzled.

She did know about the Chaldeans and Arabs in Detroit area though.

Last but not least:

Older woman, (lives in Rogers Park, grew up in Waukegan: Ugghh! Detroit! What a wasteland. I stayed at a hotel in Southfield for a conference. That city scared me. Everything was run-down. I couldn't wait to come back home to Chicago.
Me: Well, for most of the 20th century Chicago and Detroit were not that different. Sure, Detroit got burned bad by reliance on the auto industry, and the cities have been going in different directions since the '67 race riots, but other than that theres really nothing that different up to that point."
her:Uh, yeah. We have culture
Me: such as?
Her: Well, Chicago was THE destination for blacks migrating north for freedom, and developed black culture!

Thinking to myself: Is she serious. Of all things that ways Chicago can be different from Detroit, she mentions black culture!!!!

Anyways, these are extreme examples, of people who really had no idea of the cultural diversity outside Chicago. They were ignorant, but Chicago shouldn't be judged on people like these.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:39 PM
 
87 posts, read 61,565 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Funny you pick the "chef" comparison. Well I can tell you this is not the case. Take Milwaukee for instance while having a great restaurant scene and having some of the best chefs in the US. You have Sanford Restuarnt which has been named in the past as the best restaurant in the midwest. Chef Sandy D'Amato. A chef that could easily go anywhere but chose to stay in Milwaukee. [SIZE=2]DíAmato is a former winner of the Perrier JouŽt Best Chef: Midwest award from the James Beard Foundation, and who can forget he was one of 12 chefs in the nation to be personally chosen by Julia Child to cook for her 80th birthday celebration.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE][SIZE=2]http://www.sanfordrestaurant.com/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
Now take Karl Kopp who runs Kopps custard in Milwaukee, AZ88 in PHX and a swanky well know restaurant in Lower Manhattan called Bar 89 and Elsa's in downtown Milwaukee. Karl Kopp is well regarded all over the US as a fine restaurateur.

Then Milwaukee has Paul Bartolotta who runs many Italian restaurants in Milwaukee and a restaurant in the Wynn Las Vegas called Bartolotta Ristorante di Mare and was also on TV for "Battle of the Iron Chefs".

Las Vegas Hotels - Wynn Las Vegas

Paul Bartolotta's Italian Empire - ABC News

Milwaukee also has Chef Marc Bianchini who born and raised in New York City and was a chef in Italy and two well know restaurants in NYC La Bernardin, San Domenico.then moved to Milwaukee to open up several restaurants here in the city. Restaurants that are often visited by celebrities and well know businessmen and politicians alike.

OnMilwaukee.com Dining: Milwaukee Talks: Chef Marc Bianchini

Milwaukee also has had many chefs from Chicago relocate here and open up restaurants here as well as they managing their Chicago restaurants . I could go on forever but I think I proved my point.

As much as I strongly disagreed with your views about Chicago and its "relatives", I agree with you 100% here. I have known or read about several chefs from the Chicago area, even L.A. and New York area who relocated to the Milwaukee area over the years. It's one of the most underrated food towns in the U.S.
You might enjoy this article if you havent already seen it. I make it to Milwaukee about as often as Chicago.
The Epi-Log on Epicurious.com: The Most Underrated Food Cities (Take Milwaukee)
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:20 PM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,205,020 times
Reputation: 2078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
[edited for length]
I don't want to get in the way of this feud. And I am not taking sides. I know the people that are like what pam21 and Colts describe (even though I also ignoring the attitudes of these two as well). They are around, but I just ignore them, and move on. I think its just like what people have been saying, that the simple size, accompanied by a lack of interest in history, may keep people in the dark about other midwestern cities
I'd give you a million rep points for this if I could. Many (not all) Chicagoans hold these types of attitudes, and it really plays a role in the perception of a city by others. It's a two-way street.
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